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Thread: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

  1. #16
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    I read it on BA this past week I think. His former HS coach mentioned it. But regardless, I'm in the camp that he doesn't have the arm to be a plus SS. Even if he did have the arm, with that speed, I'd love to have him in CF.
    Yeah, that was it. I thought I had read it online, but it was printed in the second-to-last issue I got.

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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I feel that I should just point out that Stubbs career OPS is higher than the one Cozart is currently sporting and Stubbs is all of one year older than Cozart is.
    This is Stubbs 3rd year in the major he has regressed by not closing any holes in his swing and refuses to make any changes, also his minor league track record shows no improvement in this area. Cozart plays SS which is traditionally harder to find players for than CF, and this is his first full year in the league.

    Both though are excellent defenders, so take the good with the bad.

  4. #18
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    This is Stubbs 3rd year in the major he has regressed by not closing any holes in his swing and refuses to make any changes, also his minor league track record shows no improvement in this area. Cozart plays SS which is traditionally harder to find players for than CF, and this is his first full year in the league.

    Both though are excellent defenders, so take the good with the bad.
    HE refuses? You asked him? You talked to his coaches who told you that? By the way, his strikeout rate this year is down from last year by a decent amount.

    Shortstops and center fielders are essentially the same in terms of 'hard to find'. And while Stubbs has 'regressed' some, we also know that Stubbs has been around the league 15 times and Cozart hasn't been around once. Stubbs BABIP is way down from his career norms too. It will return and when it does, he is probably a .700 OPS bat.

    Not that I would say either guy is better than the other, but that is kind of the point.... you are derailing one while not derailing the other, when they are essentially the same guy at this point.

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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    HE refuses? You asked him? You talked to his coaches who told you that? By the way, his strikeout rate this year is down from last year by a decent amount.

    Shortstops and center fielders are essentially the same in terms of 'hard to find'. And while Stubbs has 'regressed' some, we also know that Stubbs has been around the league 15 times and Cozart hasn't been around once. Stubbs BABIP is way down from his career norms too. It will return and when it does, he is probably a .700 OPS bat.

    Not that I would say either guy is better than the other, but that is kind of the point.... you are derailing one while not derailing the other, when they are essentially the same guy at this point.
    What I meant for Stubbs is his swing is still very long, and he swings so hard he looks off balance...

  6. #20
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    What I meant for Stubbs is his swing is still very long, and he swings so hard he looks off balance...
    He is off balance often, because he can't read a slider/curve. Puts him on his front foot with him then just reaching because he realizes too late that he thought it was a different pitch.

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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Let's just say I'm not a big Stubbs fan when he's at bath..

  8. #22
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    Let's just say I'm not a big Stubbs fan when he's at bath..
    Well you shouldn't be much of a fan of most guys on this team at the plate because most of them can't hit any better than Stubbs can.

  9. #23
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    HE refuses? You asked him? You talked to his coaches who told you that? By the way, his strikeout rate this year is down from last year by a decent amount.

    Shortstops and center fielders are essentially the same in terms of 'hard to find'. And while Stubbs has 'regressed' some, we also know that Stubbs has been around the league 15 times and Cozart hasn't been around once. Stubbs BABIP is way down from his career norms too. It will return and when it does, he is probably a .700 OPS bat.

    Not that I would say either guy is better than the other, but that is kind of the point.... you are derailing one while not derailing the other, when they are essentially the same guy at this point.
    But Doug. . . would you deny that, for whatever reason, Stubbs hasn't made adjustments that have been reflected in outcome? Moreover, Stubbs has stated on more than one occassion (the last being about a week ago) that he didn't see any need to alter his approach to hitting to lessen strikeouts - the jist of which I took to mean he thought maintaining his power was more important. Now, I don't know how much a guy like Stubbs (i.e., a guy who has alwyas struck out a lot) can improve his contact rate, but I would have to think there are things that can be taught or different approaches to hitting that would somewhat improve one's ability to make contact and/or get on base more. If that's correct, then I would mainly blame the organization; and at this point I would think that it's getting a little late and Stubbs is probably too entrenched in his approach to change much.

    As for the comparison of Stubbs and Cozart hitting ability, you've seen them both for a while now, both coming up in the minors and now in the big leagues, so I would have to defer to your opinion; but it just looks to me like Cozart has better contact skills - whether it will play out like that over the whole season I don't know.
    Last edited by rgslone; 06-02-2012 at 11:48 AM.

  10. #24
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by rgslone View Post
    But Doug. . . would you deny that, for whatever reason, Stubbs hasn't made adjustments that have been reflected in outcome? Moreover, Stubbs has stated on more than one occassion (the last being about a week ago) that he didn't see any need to alter his approach to hitting to lessen strikeouts - the jist of which I took to mean he thought maintaining his power was more important. Now, I don't know how much a guy like Stubbs (i.e., a guy who has alwyas struck out a lot) can improve his contact rate, but I would have to think there are things that can be taught or different approaches to hitting that would somewhat improve one's ability to make contact and/or get on base more. If that's correct, then I would mainly blame the organization; and at this point I would think that it's getting a little late and Stubbs is probably too entrenched in his approach to change much.

    As for the comparison of Stubbs and Cozart hitting ability, you've seen them both for a while now, both coming up in the minors and now in the big leagues, so I would have to defer to your opinion; but it just looks to me like Cozart has better contact skills - whether it will play out like that over the whole season I don't know.
    Stubbs strikes out because of pitch recognition, not because of his swing or anything to do with it. There is a reason that nearly everyone strikes out and walks at a similar rate as they always do. It isn't some easy fix because it is usually related to the ability to read a pitch quick enough to know what is coming and that generally can't be taught.

    Cozart makes more contact, or should. But a lot of guys make more contact than Joey Votto does too. Doesn't mean they are better hitters. If contact rates made good hitters, Juan Pierre would be the best hitter in baseball, not one of the worst.

  11. #25
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Stubbs strikes out because of pitch recognition, not because of his swing or anything to do with it. There is a reason that nearly everyone strikes out and walks at a similar rate as they always do. It isn't some easy fix because it is usually related to the ability to read a pitch quick enough to know what is coming and that generally can't be taught.

    Cozart makes more contact, or should. But a lot of guys make more contact than Joey Votto does too. Doesn't mean they are better hitters. If contact rates made good hitters, Juan Pierre would be the best hitter in baseball, not one of the worst.
    Fans have a very hard time separating skill/ability from approach/effort.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #26
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Ted Williams was a great hitter and one reason was his 20/10 vision. He could see the seams rotating as soon as the ball left the pitchers hand and know what was coming. When he tried to teach hitting it frustrated the heck out of him because other guys couldn't do that. The greatest hitter and student of hitting that ever lived couldn't teach pitch recognition. You're born with it and hone what you're born with but you can't improve what you don't possess.

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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Ted Williams was a great hitter and one reason was his 20/10 vision. He could see the seams rotating as soon as the ball left the pitchers hand and know what was coming. When he tried to teach hitting it frustrated the heck out of him because other guys couldn't do that. The greatest hitter and student of hitting that ever lived couldn't teach pitch recognition. You're born with it and hone what you're born with but you can't improve what you don't possess.
    A lot of players have opted for lasik, which gives you close to that vision. I did it 10 years ago and have 20/12...

  14. #28
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    A lot of players have opted for lasik, which gives you close to that vision. I did it 10 years ago and have 20/12...
    I think you are confusing 'a lot' with 'a few'. I can only think of 5 guys off of the top of my head who I know of that have gotten it done and they aren't all Reds.

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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    I thought that was the trend the last few years, was to get the surgery.

  16. #30
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    I thought that was the trend the last few years, was to get the surgery.
    Guys who don't need glasses don't tend to opt for such a thing.


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