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Thread: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

  1. #106
    Member powersackers's Avatar
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Hey! I did qualify my statement with "upon call up". Whenever (Sept12 or later) he gets the call, you guys think he'll be less than .249/.322 ?

    Well then he isn't a prospect at all....
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

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  3. #107
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Hey! I did qualify my statement with "upon call up". Whenever (Sept12 or later) he gets the call, you guys think he'll be less than .249/.322 ?

    Well then he isn't a prospect at all....
    Mike Trout was called up last year and put up the following line: .220/.281/.390

    Do you think he is not a prospect at all???????
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  4. #108
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Hey! I did qualify my statement with "upon call up". Whenever (Sept12 or later) he gets the call, you guys think he'll be less than .249/.322 ?

    Well then he isn't a prospect at all....
    Why would you leave out his power, a giant part of his game? That would be like me only bringing up the power of Hamilton when trying to talk about him. It would be silly and missing a whole slew of information.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Hamilton couldn't OBP .320. Wouldn't be surprised if he did top it either, but it wouldn't really shock me if he never hit in the Majors either.

    I really wonder if you have ever seen the guy play a game before. He is making progress, but the guy still has a messy swing, poor balance and some pitch recognition issues that leave him flailing out on his front foot. Those groundball infield hits are going to dry up, big time in the Majors. Yes, he will still have a lot of them, but nowhere near the amount he is getting right now and it's going to drop that AVG and OBP quite a bit.

  5. #109
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Bruce View Post
    I'm not sure whether to say you're delusional or just plain ignorant. I suggest a vote.

    Careful guys, I'm guessing the mods are staging posts like this for entrapment purposes. They know that it will invoke some nasty respones and "Boom!!!", they got you.

    No one could really believe this stuff so it has to be a set up.

    Don't be surpised if you get a PM from Chris Hansen and away to the sin bin you go.


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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why would you leave out his power, a giant part of his game? That would be like me only bringing up the power of Hamilton when trying to talk about him. It would be silly and missing a whole slew of information.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Hamilton couldn't OBP .320. Wouldn't be surprised if he did top it either, but it wouldn't really shock me if he never hit in the Majors either.

    I really wonder if you have ever seen the guy play a game before. He is making progress, but the guy still has a messy swing, poor balance and some pitch recognition issues that leave him flailing out on his front foot. Those groundball infield hits are going to dry up, big time in the Majors. Yes, he will still have a lot of them, but nowhere near the amount he is getting right now and it's going to drop that AVG and OBP quite a bit.
    Do you think he will improve on these issues?

  7. #111
    Member powersackers's Avatar
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    I left out power yes because a single and two bases stolen equals a triple in my mind. I saw Billy play 17 games and a playoff game last year. Traditional baseball prosepecting which Doug is very good at... doesn't always apply when someone has an 80 tool and knows how to use it. Speed changes everything at 80. Speed plays at every level. Pitchers don't want 80 speed on base. They change their mentality. It affects the defense, the coaches, the pitch sequence. Who you try and get out and how. Dee Gordon was quoted this week as saying Hamilton's game plays now at any level. I just happen to agree. I base it on the above. This is not a setup. I don't mind the name calling. I believe Billy will change everything from the minute his name is penciled in. I come here to write what I believe. I read the opposition and digest it. But it hasn't changed my mind because I think your traditional analysis doesn't apply to his rare player.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  8. #112
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    I left out power yes because a single and two bases stolen equals a triple in my mind.
    Even with the bases loaded?

  9. #113
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    I left out power yes because a single and two bases stolen equals a triple in my mind.
    Well it doesn't work that way. You hit a single with a runner on first base and you can't steal 2 bases. You hit a triple with a runner on first and you just drove in a run. The triple is a whole lot more valuable than the single and two steals.

    I saw Billy play 17 games and a playoff game last year. Traditional baseball prosepecting which Doug is very good at... doesn't always apply when someone has an 80 tool and knows how to use it.
    Hamilton isn't actually good at using it, at least in terms of stealing bases. The guy is that fast, but if he were actually a good base stealer, he wouldn't be caught once this season. His time from 1st to second base is faster than the time it takes a pitcher to get to home with a pitch and a catchers pop time. He just doesn't always get the right reads. If he did, he would be 120 for 120.

    Speed changes everything at 80. Speed plays at every level. Pitchers don't want 80 speed on base. They change their mentality. It affects the defense, the coaches, the pitch sequence. Who you try and get out and how. Dee Gordon was quoted this week as saying Hamilton's game plays now at any level.
    Dee Gordon has 80 speed. How's he hitting? Willy Taveras had 80 speed. How did he hit? Theo Bowe has 80 speed, where are the cries for him (and he is outhitting Hamilton right now in Bakersfield, albeit in lesser time)? Michael Bourn has 80 speed, how has he hit before this season?

    As for what Dee Gordon said about Hamilton's game.... when has Gordon even had a chance to watch Hamilton play? They have never played in the same league as each other. It isn't like Gordon gets to go watch him.

  10. #114
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    I would be willing to bet that I have seen Dee Gordon play in person more than Dee Gordon has seen Billy Hamilton play. I have seen Gordon about 20 times in person.

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Even with the bases loaded?
    How many times a season is a typical leadoff hitter up with the bases loaded? I compared the two slash numbers that are remotely possible to compare. In terms if wins added to a team I think the power of one player can be compared to the speed of another when they are equally elite tools.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  12. #116
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    How many times a season is a typical leadoff hitter up with the bases loaded? I compared the two slash numbers that are remotely possible to compare. In terms if wins added to a team I think the power of one player can be compared to the speed of another when they are equally elite tools.
    Doesn't matter, in no world is a single and 2 stolen bases the same as a triple.

    In the odd case they may be equal, but in most circumstances the triple is way better.

    And you are assuming that Hamilton's singles are followed by 2 stolen bases. They aren't.

    And how about those HR's?

  13. #117
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    How many times a season is a typical leadoff hitter up with the bases loaded? I compared the two slash numbers that are remotely possible to compare. In terms if wins added to a team I think the power of one player can be compared to the speed of another when they are equally elite tools.
    Runner on first, 2 outs.

    You don't see the difference between a triple and single?

    Really?

    REALLY?

    And yes, lead off hitters do have people on base sometimes. Your thesis is really, really, really wrong.

  14. #118
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Runner on first, 2 outs.

    You don't see the difference between a triple and single?

    Really?

    REALLY?

    And yes, lead off hitters do have people on base sometimes. Your thesis is really, really, really wrong.
    Furcal (who I assume has batted lead-off all season) has come up with a single runner on first base 40 times this year, which would come to about 95 over a full season.

    That's 95 times when a triple would be just what the doctor ordered. A single, not so much.

  15. #119
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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    How many times a season is a typical leadoff hitter up with the bases loaded?
    Michael Bourn came up to the plate last season 234 times with at least one runner on. Joey Votto did so 330 times. So it happens to be quite a bunch that a leadoff guys comes up to the plate with someone on base.

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    Re: Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Dee Gordon has 80 speed. How's he hitting?
    227 BA, 277 OBP this year
    261 BA 298 OBP career

    Hmmmm .... wait a minute

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Hey! I did qualify my statement with "upon call up". Whenever (Sept12 or later) he gets the call, you guys think he'll be less than .249/.322 ?

    Well then he isn't a prospect at all....
    Dee Gordon is clearly not a prospect at all

    Oh, and for the record, Dee Gordon hit 301/362 as a 21 year old in single-A.

    So much for single-A numbers being predictive of MLB results, even for guys with an 80 speed tool.


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