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Thread: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

  1. #166
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Of course if you had taken Arroyo out earlier, the Reds inning would have gone completely different. And of course you are assuming the Astros wouldn't have scored on the Red's reliever.
    Agree on the second point. It's possible the Reds' reliever would have given up the runs anyway.

    On the first point, if Arroyo comes out, Reds would have (should have) double switched Frazier into the game anyway. So I don't see why the Reds inning should have been different.

    Bottom line, if I knew Arroyo should have been out, the Reds should have known it.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-03-2012 at 04:48 PM.

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  3. #167
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Infield hit for Martinez.

  4. #168
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    They are calling that an error on Frazier which is a bad scoring decision

  5. #169
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    On the first point, if Arroyo comes out after the sixth, Reds would have (should have) double switched Frazier into the game anyway. So I don't see why that eighth inning would have been any different for the Reds.
    Becuase the timing would be different. Everything about the inning would be changed. The Reds might have scored 10 runs, they may have scored 0. But every sequence would be different.

    If the pitcher decides to hesitate a second before throwing a pitch, he's changed the sequence of events. Especially in a sport like baseball, where randomness runs supreme.

  6. #170
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Johnson strikes out swinging.

  7. #171
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Of course if you had taken Arroyo out earlier, the Reds inning would have gone completely different.
    I'm not sure you can assume that at all. In fact, good chance Frazier hits in the nine hole regardless. Sure, maybe they pitch differently or the Reds don't take the same approach at the dish, but the order would have been the same, IMO. Dusty made a mistake, and one he needs to learn from.
    This place use to be fun

  8. #172
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Wallace hit by the pitch

  9. #173
    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Argh. Logan beaned Wallace. That Wallace kid has a weird grip...the bottom 2 fingers on his top hand are overlapping the top 2 fingers on is bottom hand.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

  10. #174
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Castro singles to left. Bases loaded.

  11. #175
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Becuase the timing would be different. Everything about the inning would be changed. The Reds might have scored 10 runs, they may have scored 0. But every sequence would be different.

    If the pitcher decides to hesitate a second before throwing a pitch, he's changed the sequence of events. Especially in a sport like baseball, where randomness runs supreme.
    Sure, anything could have been different.

    Leaving Arroyo to pitch to Maxwell, indeed to pitch that seventh inning at all, was awful managing that directly led to this being a three run game (now two) instead of a one run game.

    The manager left the pitcher in too long, he likely did it because the pitcher was up lead off, it was poor reasoning, a poor decision, and may have cost the team the game.

    Although Ondrusek, who has struggled lately, isn't helping matters right now.

  12. #176
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I would make a move for Arroyo now.
    I would have too. Key reason the Reds are losing. Manager waits too long to give the yank.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  13. #177
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    After 15 pitches Ondrusek gets hit at a .300 clip - time to change

  14. #178
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    I'm not sure you can assume that at all. In fact, good chance Frazier hits in the nine hole regardless. Sure, maybe they pitch differently or the Reds don't take the same approach at the dish, but the order would have been the same, IMO. Dusty made a mistake, and one he needs to learn from.
    You've missed my point.

    It doesn't matter that the order would be the same.

    The changed timing means that every pitch and every swing would be different.

    We change pitchers and even if we get out of it, Frazier would bat at a different time. That changes everything. Frazier might still hit a double, as he sometimes hits doubles. But what he actually did on this AB is likely not particularly relevant ton what he would have done if the timing is different.

  15. #179
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    After 15 pitches Ondrusek gets hit at a .300 clip - time to change
    Logan's numbers have suffered lately. I'm concerned that he can't handle this much usage.

    Logan's strikeout to walk ratio is flattening, and he was much more effective in April.

    Reds aren't using him too much for many relievers, but this pitcher seems to fade with a lot of use.

  16. #180
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    Re: 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston

    Whew - come backer that Logan bobbled but he had plenty of time to get him anyway


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