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Thread: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

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    Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Clearly the biggest hole on the team right now is a big stick in LF. Here are three out-of-the-box, splashy solutions I would entertain to address this problem:

    1. Trade for Justin Upton

    I'll start with the least realistic yet most outside-the-box option. Justin Upton is owed $45MM through 2015, when he'll be a 27 year old free agent. While he is less than 10% to get traded, he has struggled immensely in 2012 and just got blasted publicly by his owner: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...rom-upton.html

    Upton could plug immediately into the #2 or #4 hole (he hits RH) and juice this lineup for the next 3.5 years. Additionally, he'd be a plus-plus defender in LF. He would cost a bundle both in talent and dollars (although who knows where the limit is on payroll these days?). I'd offer any three prospects in the system for him- probably something like Hamilton, Corcino, and Gregorius, just to see if their front office is tempted to make a bold move given their owner's frustrations. Hamilton is Hamilton and Corcino would look nice along with Bauer, Bradley and Skaggs. Drew is clearly leaving town after this year so Gregorius could start for them as early as next year.

    2. Trade for Carlos Quentin

    The FA-to-be wouldn't cost much in dollars or long term commitments, and I hypothesized in another thread that something like Soto + Duran could get it done. The SD native could return to his hometown Padres this offseason, so it is unlikely the non-contending Pads would require much in a rental for his services. He's not a great defender but he's been on fire since getting activated from the DL 2 weeks ago. He also hits RH, so he would immediately become a powerful cleanup hitter for the Reds: he has jacked 5 HR in just 27 AB so far this year with Petco as his home field, so just imagine what he could do in GAB.

    3. Sign Jorge Soler

    OK so this doesn't do anything for the Reds this year. Or next year. But Soler is the premier type of talent that could be the LF on this team for a decade. Between Soler, Bruce, Lutz and Winker, the Reds wouldn't have to worry about another corner OF for at least a decade. It would surely be costly, but probably not as much as another international signing the Reds were willing to pay for- Aroldis Chapman, and he is looking more and more worth it by the day. Plus, this is the last opportunity for a small-market team like the Reds to really make an outlier splash with an amateur player, as the new spending cap goes into effect July 2 (and bids are due for Soler today). I'd really cringe if the Cubs get him, and they are reportedly the favorites to do so.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Benihana; 06-07-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    I am thinking Quentin isn't going to be as easy to get as some are thinking. Right now he is probably the best bat available, which means that pushes his price up. Not saying the Reds couldn't meet such price, just that it won't be so easy.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Mindful of the "trading within the division": Nyjer Morgan. Can reach base against righties, run. Might be a bad chemistry guy. Might be a good one.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    I am thinking Quentin isn't going to be as easy to get as some are thinking. Right now he is probably the best bat available, which means that pushes his price up. Not saying the Reds couldn't meet such price, just that it won't be so easy.
    He's also due to be the best free agent outfielder on the market. If his agent has any say in the matter, he'd only be a rental if the Reds obtain him.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    I heard on ESPN Radio that the Padres are going to want a similar package to Carlos Beltran last season. I don't think Soto and Duran get the job done. I think they are going to want a top 5 Reds prospect in order to complete the deal. If the Reds think he would be the missing piece I have no problems with them doing that, as long as that prospect isn't Hamilton.

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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    I am thinking Quentin isn't going to be as easy to get as some are thinking. Right now he is probably the best bat available, which means that pushes his price up. Not saying the Reds couldn't meet such price, just that it won't be so easy.
    Agreed that his recent tear helps the Pads asking price, but I would think his defensive limitations as well as his expiring contract put a ceiling on his trade value.

    I heard on ESPN Radio that the Padres are going to want a similar package to Carlos Beltran last season. I don't think Soto and Duran get the job done. I think they are going to want a top 5 Reds prospect in order to complete the deal. If the Reds think he would be the missing piece I have no problems with them doing that, as long as that prospect isn't Hamilton.
    I wouldn't move Hamilton or Corcino for him, and I'd think long and hard before moving one of the other top three arms (Lotzkar, Cingrani, and Stephenson). Virtually anyone else in the system would be OK by me. Obviously this year's draftees aren't eligible to be dealt.

    If we have to give up the farm for a LF, I'd prefer to go really big and try to pry away J.Upton.
    Last edited by Benihana; 06-07-2012 at 02:23 PM.
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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Agreed that his recent tear helps the Pads asking price, but I would think his defensive limitations as well as his expiring contract put a ceiling on his trade value.



    I wouldn't move Hamilton or Corcino for him, and I'd think long and hard before moving one of the other top three arms (Lotzkar, Cingrani, and Stephenson). Virtually anyone else in the system would be OK by me. Obviously this year's draftees aren't eligible to be dealt.
    I would move Lotzkar for him. I wouldn't move Hamilton, Corcino, Cingrani, Rodriguez, or Stephenson for him. I think the Padres would be crazy to demand a pitcher in a trade of Quentin. Considering they play 70%(?) of their games in extreme pitchers parks its much easire for them to have quality pitching. They needs bats and more bats. I don't know if the Reds are a good fit in that regard.

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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quinten isn't worth a propsect haul for a rental. Maybe Soto but not much more. I think there's other options.

    I think Ludwick might be the LF fix himself! He's had hits in each of his last 5 starts, he's getting RBI and his avg has raised from .191 to .207 in the last 10 days.

    But if not, what about AAA options, trade for and give one a these guys a shot:

    Corey Brown SYR (WAS)
    Jordan Danks CHA (CWS) just called him up today
    Lars Anderson PAW (BOS)
    Roger Kieshnick PCL (SF) surprised they aren't trying his bat themselves yet
    Adam Eaton PCL (ARZ) hitting .399 from Miami Redhawks
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Quinten isn't worth a propsect haul for a rental. Maybe Soto but not much more. I think there's other options.

    I think Ludwick might be the LF fix himself! He's had hits in each of his last 5 starts, he's getting RBI and his avg has raised from .191 to .207 in the last 10 days.

    But if not, what about AAA options, trade for and give one a these guys a shot:

    Corey Brown SYR (WAS)
    Jordan Danks CHA (CWS) just called him up today
    Lars Anderson PAW (BOS)
    Roger Kieshnick PCL (SF) surprised they aren't trying his bat themselves yet
    Adam Eaton PCL (ARZ) hitting .399 from Miami Redhawks
    Very doubtful that any of those minor leaguers will be considerably more valuable than a Ludwick/Heisey combo. If we are going to trade away value, I'd want to do it for a significant upgrade, whether that's Quentin, Upton, or someone else that would move the needle.
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Very doubtful that any of those minor leaguers will be considerably more valuable than a Ludwick/Heisey combo. If we are going to trade away value, I'd want to do it for a significant upgrade, whether that's Quentin, Upton, or someone else that would move the needle.
    The Reds now have exactly two lefty hitters on the team (excluding pitchers).

    The Reds now have a .309 team OBP.

    These two issues can be corrected without trading away the team's top prospects. I wouldn't mortgage the future for Quenton or Upton or a similar player.

    I would go for somewhat lesser players who hit lefty and get on base. I think two of them would do the trick. More power isn't a critical need, the Reds hit their share of long balls with the current cast.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-07-2012 at 02:48 PM.

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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Mindful of the "trading within the division": Nyjer Morgan. Can reach base against righties, run. Might be a bad chemistry guy. Might be a good one.
    I don't want anybody with an alter-ego on this team plus Votto might kill him.

  13. #12
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    The go big idea sounds ok. Its just so unlikely. My ML guys might not out hit Heisey and Ludwick, but they might!
    Last edited by powersackers; 06-07-2012 at 02:51 PM.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    What I'd give to have Upton. I think you're right in that there's very little chance he can be had, but it sure would be nice. I'm think we'd have to give them some major league talent, not just minor leaguers; though Hamilton and Corinco are likely at the top of anybody's Reds target list.

    I've got to say though, I don't get the fascination with Quentin. He's had 1 good season, 4 years ago. He's got a lot of power, but that's pretty much it. He's a poor defender who's really struggled to square the ball up since 2008. In terms of production, I don't see him as giving any more than Heisey.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 06-07-2012 at 02:55 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    What I'd give to have Upton. I think you're right in that there's very little chance he can be had, but it sure would be nice. I'm think we'd have to give them some major league talent, not just minor leaguers; though Hamilton and Corinco are likely at the top of anybody's Reds target list.
    I would offer Stubbs or Heisey along with the three minor leaguers. Stubbs could help offset some of the payroll, especially going forward. I actually can't see the Diamondbacks rejecting that off-hand (maybe eventually, but they don't hang up instantly).
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    Re: Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The Reds now have exactly two lefty hitters on the team (excluding pitchers).

    The Reds now have a .309 team OBP.

    These two issues can be corrected without trading away the team's top prospects. I wouldn't mortgage the future for Quenton or Upton or a similar player.

    I would go for somewhat lesser players who hit lefty and get on base. I think two of them would do the trick. More power isn't a critical need, the Reds hit their share of long balls with the current cast.
    Justin Upton's OBP is .340 this year, and that's by far the lowest it's been since he was a 19 year old rookie in 2007. In other words, if he can't dramatically increase the team's OBP, I don't know who can.

    I'd "mortgage the future" for Upton, because I believe the Reds future would include multiple Pennants, if not World Series.

    And I'd argue that deal wouldn't mortgage the future, as the Reds would still have three SP in AA worth monitoring, in addition to all the talent they now have in the rookie leagues from the last two drafts. And three of their top five hitting prospects (Lutz, Rodriguez, Vidal). Plus, barring injury, they'd be set at every position on the diamond through 2015.
    Last edited by Benihana; 06-07-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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