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Thread: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

  1. #331
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    The result wasn't the right one but it was an awesome game to watch.
    Agreed. Very entertaining. Glad I watched, not happy the team lost.
    What's the REDS record vs. the Pirates this year?
    How many games left with them?
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  3. #332
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Like I stated in an earlier post, the Pirates are a strong matchup for the right handed heavy and OBP Deficient Reds. Blame Dusty all you want, but Walt has constructed a right handed free swinging team with one of the worst benches in Reds recent memory. That being said, they've played well with the hand they were dealt.
    Last edited by forfreelin04; 06-07-2012 at 10:32 PM.

  4. #333
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    OBP. As an old-schooler, I didn't use to believe, but it's so glaring these days:

    1. 245/294/417
    2. 254/289/345

    Lead off with a rookie and bat a kid who very, very inconsistent second, emasculating Votto. Phillips miscast as a cleanup hitter. Big mess most nights. Add to that the first swinging tendency and the bad slumps by Bruce and this club will let a lot of opportunities pass by. Tonight they could have moved 4 up with the Bucs playing a weak Twins team and the Cards playing The faltering Indians. But, it was not to be on a mental error.
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  5. #334
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I'd argue the Pirates earned this one.
    Much agreed.....Hughes was great....Jones had an excuse me RBI with 2 outs, and then the tenth was nothing short of a successful hail Mary.

  6. #335
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    OBP. As an old-schooler, I didn't use to believe, but it's so glaring these days:

    1. 245/294/417
    2. 254/289/345

    Lead off with a rookie and bat a kid who very, very inconsistent second, emasculating Votto. Phillips miscast as a cleanup hitter. Big mess most nights. Add to that the first swinging tendency and the bad slumps by Bruce and this club will let a lot of opportunities pass by. Tonight they could have moved 4 up with the Bucs playing a weak Twins team and the Cards playing The faltering Indians. But, it was not to be on a mental error.
    If Walt doesn't do something for some OBP in front of Votto he's asleep at the helm

  7. #336
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    I hate how the pirates kill our pitching and suck against everybody else. So frustrating.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  8. #337
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04 View Post
    If Walt doesn't do something for some OBP in front of Votto he's asleep at the helm
    I don't really see any move that Walt could, or maybe should, make this year that improves the team going forward. He made some bold moves in the offseason that have had some mixed results. He can't really clear the farm of any useful talent until some of the lower level guys start to push their way up the system. He took a flyer with what he had left and that was a crappy OB team, hoping the pitching would win, and by and large, it has. Athough collectively stumbling a bit this month and tail end of May. The "core" is around for a few years now. Suck it up this year, take your 85 or so wins and re-evaluate for '13. Just don't panic (and I don't see Walt doing so) and try and win at all costs this year. Now, with what's available I would like to see Dusty maneuver his guys so that people actually get on base for Votto and Bruce, but that also may need to wait 'til next year (Dusty's last contract year, right?).
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  9. #338
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    I don't really see any move that Walt could, or maybe should, make this year that improves the team going forward. He made some bold moves in the offseason that have had some mixed results. He can't really clear the farm of any useful talent until some of the lower level guys start to push their way up the system. He took a flyer with what he had left and that was a crappy OB team, hoping the pitching would win, and by and large, it has. Athough collectively stumbling a bit this month and tail end of May. The "core" is around for a few years now. Suck it up this year, take your 85 or so wins and re-evaluate for '13. Just don't panic (and I don't see Walt doing so) and try and win at all costs this year. Now, with what's available I would like to see Dusty maneuver his guys so that people actually get on base for Votto and Bruce, but that also may need to wait 'til next year (Dusty's last contract year, right?).
    See, I don't see a major move needed. I think simply a left fielder with some OBP skills is needed to hit in front of Votto. I love DeJesus. I don't think he'd take a Hamilton, Corcino or a Stephenson.

  10. #339
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04 View Post
    See, I don't see a major move needed. I think simply a left fielder with some OBP skills is needed to hit in front of Votto. I love DeJesus. I don't think he'd take a Hamilton, Corcino or a Stephenson.
    OK, and I'm asking because I don't know, who would it take to get him - hypothetically of course. I just don't think the Reds have a lot to give right now. Now, if they are going to make a trade then I would hope it would be for a Latos (not SP, per se) type player who would be part of the team for the next few years. And I don't think the Reds really have the bullets right now. Do you think DeJesus is that type of player? Would a package of Negron and Costanzo do it? j/k
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  11. #340
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    I don't really see any move that Walt could, or maybe should, make this year that improves the team going forward. He made some bold moves in the offseason that have had some mixed results. He can't really clear the farm of any useful talent until some of the lower level guys start to push their way up the system. He took a flyer with what he had left and that was a crappy OB team, hoping the pitching would win, and by and large, it has. Athough collectively stumbling a bit this month and tail end of May. The "core" is around for a few years now. Suck it up this year, take your 85 or so wins and re-evaluate for '13. Just don't panic (and I don't see Walt doing so) and try and win at all costs this year. Now, with what's available I would like to see Dusty maneuver his guys so that people actually get on base for Votto and Bruce, but that also may need to wait 'til next year (Dusty's last contract year, right?).
    There is no way Walt is going to "suck it up this year." He's in a weak division with a playoff opportunity. No way he doesn't make efforts to improve the offense.

    He probably won't acquire very expensive players or give up a ton in a big trade. But Walt will go after rentals, or guys with relatively short term contracts.

    And this is Dusty's last contract year, not next season.

  12. #341
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    There is no way Walt is going to "suck it up this year." He's in a weak division with a playoff opportunity. No way he doesn't make efforts to improve the offense.

    He probably won't acquire very expensive players or give up a ton in a big trade. But Walt will go after rentals, or guys with relatively short term contracts.

    And this is Dusty's last contract year, not next season.
    Yes, was I was trying to infer was that THIS was Dusty's last year. Get off my back.

    I guess my whole premise was that these rentals that can be had that don't require a king's ransom are, in fact, Heisey and Ludwick. Can the offense really be more than marginally improved (assuming a blockbuster we don't forsee). Look, I see next year as a much better year for the Reds than this, assuming Chapman in the rotation, regardless of what the rest of the division looks like.
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  13. #342
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    OK, and I'm asking because I don't know, who would it take to get him - hypothetically of course. I just don't think the Reds have a lot to give right now. Now, if they are going to make a trade then I would hope it would be for a Latos (not SP, per se) type player who would be part of the team for the next few years. And I don't think the Reds really have the bullets right now. Do you think DeJesus is that type of player? Would a package of Negron and Costanzo do it? j/k
    Well for Marshall it took a fringe young starter, a utility outfielder who hasn't cracked the Cubs roster yet and Torreys. I would imagine Marshall would be more valuable than Dejesus. Couldn't the Reds afford another package of lesser value?

  14. #343
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    Yes, was I was trying to infer was that THIS was Dusty's last year. Get off my back.

    I guess my whole premise was that these rentals that can be had that don't require a king's ransom are, in fact, Heisey and Ludwick. Can the offense really be more than marginally improved (assuming a blockbuster we don't forsee). Look, I see next year as a much better year for the Reds than this, assuming Chapman in the rotation, regardless of what the rest of the division looks like.
    I thought you meant that next year was Dusty's last. My mistake, sorry.

    To me, it's just a crime to have a hitter like Votto and have Cozart/Heisey hitting before him and Phillips after him. I think the team can be significantly improved with modest changes. There are skill sets that are missing.

    Get a couple of OB guys, lefty hitters. Provide some offensive balance. Superstars unnecessary.

    I think it can make a difference this year, a meaningful difference, without a ton of additional investment.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-07-2012 at 11:40 PM.

  15. #344
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I thought you meant that next year was Dusty's last. My mistake, sorry.

    To me, it's just a crime to have a hitter like Votto and have Cozart/Heisey hitting before him and Phillips after him. I think the team can be significantly improved with modest changes. There are skill sets that are missing.

    Get a couple of OB guys, lefty hitters. Provide some offensive balance. Superstars unnecessary.

    I think it can make a difference this year, a meaningful difference, without a ton of additional investment.
    I was joking about the Baker comment. Hope you got that. I don't take this stuff that seriously.

    I agree it's a crime with Votto, but one that's already been committed. Look, I'm not opposed to moving Phillips back in the 1 spot and hope his approach changes. He's stated he'd rather bat there anyway, so maybe he'd relax a bit. Move Frazier, for better or worse, into the 4 spot if you MUST break up the lefties (although I'd just bat Votto/Bruce back-to-back with some wiggle against certain LHP), and fill in the lineup from there. I love the defense this team gives and if Rolen CAN come back, move Frazier to LF (although I suppose you lose some of that defense especially compared to Heisey).

    If they can get a LF or CF that can get on base for little mid-season, then count me in - I'd love Choo - I just don't see the marginal upgrades worth the potential cost, but it's hard for me I suppose to judge moves without said move on the table.
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  16. #345
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates at Reds 6-7-12

    Willingham is the guy that Walt needs to pull out of a hat.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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