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Thread: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

  1. #166
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    I still think if we had a 'go back' machine Bruce would be able to out perform him though. Sorry,pitchers simply weren't nearly as good then. Bruce would be able to feast on a whole slew of 90 MPH fastballs.
    I don't buy this for a second. Parker was simply more skilled, and just as powerful. Keep in mind that if you put Bruce in that era, you'd have to adjust him to the environment 100% -- meaning he'd have the same training regimen as those guys did -- same workout/nutrition knowledge as held sway at that time. You got to level the playing field if you want a fair comparison.
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  3. #167
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I don't buy this for a second. Parker was simply more skilled, and just as powerful. Keep in mind that if you put Bruce in that era, you'd have to adjust him to the environment 100% -- meaning he'd have the same training regimen as those guys did -- same workout/nutrition knowledge as held sway at that time. You got to level the playing field if you want a fair comparison.
    No, my point was if we had a time machine. Of course athletes going back and being born in those times would be different.

  4. #168
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Not saying that at all. Parker had better seasons than Bruce has had thus far. I still think if we had a 'go back' machine Bruce would be able to out perform him though. Sorry,pitchers simply weren't nearly as good then. Bruce would be able to feast on a whole slew of 90 MPH fastballs.
    Ok, I understand what you're saying and you may be right. But I still just don't think Bruce would be as good a hitter as Parker even if they were the same age and Parker was playing today (especially if Parker didn't have any drug issues). Nevertheless, I'm very happy Bruce is our RF.

  5. #169
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Doug, its an interesting point to discuss. I don't think we're really that far off anyway. I agree each generation overall gets better than the one before. I only disagree that any one athlete sent back 25 years would have much of an advantage. Send him back 50 years though and he'd have a big advantage. I think it would be far more likely to work against the hitters or pitchers of a generation past to be brought forward than the reverse.

  6. #170
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    We sure are off the topic.

  7. #171
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Travel, Astroturf, trainers insisting he not lift weights, managerial decisions in which Bruce would bunt runners over-- often.

    Nope. Still not buying the 70s Bruce love. (And especially not the 60s Bruce love. He'd have been relegated to fourth OF status simply because he'd K too much. And the big old parks! Pitching inside, no armor, poor lighting, heavier, hotter uniforms-- not then either.)

    Every generation has crosses to bear. The crosses, IMO, of past generations outweigh the increases in body mass and bioengineering we've been able to create today.

    Some players, of course, could cross over. IMO, Ted Williams could play in any generation. Same with Walter Johnson. Joey Votto would be great no matter when he played. Mickey Mantle, too. (Likely even better today, considering the advances in medicine that would hav fixed his knee after he stepped in an irrigation ditch in Yankee Stadium early in his career.)

    Poor lighting and poor fastball (comparatively) equal out, IMO. So you're then left with tools. And Bruce's 2012 tools just aren't as impressive.
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  8. #172
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Scrap Irony: "He'd have been relegated to fourth OF status simply because he'd K too much."

    I think this is an interesting statement. When I look at the stats from the 70s, it seems to me that none of the good (or even decent) players ever struck out at anything close to the rate Bruce does. Of course, Bruce's K rate is not that unusual in this era. I think that higher Ks have been more acceptable since the steriod era and home-run craze. I suspect before that time players would have been embarrassed with the K rate Bruce has and would have made whatever adjustments were necessary to decrease it (maybe at the expense of some HRs). Now, the emphasis is so much on HRs that K rates that may have been considered unacceptable in other eras are now shrugged off.

  9. #173
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Of course Jay wouldn't strike out nearly as much facing lesser pitchers.

  10. #174
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Of course Jay wouldn't strike out nearly as much facing lesser pitchers.
    Oh dear lord.

    Its almost like you are now trolling.

  11. #175
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Of course Jay wouldn't strike out nearly as much facing lesser pitchers.
    Pitchers throwing Bruce an offspeed pitch off the plate would strike Bruce out in any era.

  12. #176
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Way to take this thread in a terrible direction, gents. Try again.

    Here's the deal: Doug (and many others) have disrespected Cingrani with their misguided rankings. If anyone thinks Kyle Lotzkar is a better prospect than Tony Cingrani, I will be happy to explain the sport of baseball to them.

  13. #177
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Way to take this thread in a terrible direction, gents. Try again.

    Here's the deal: Doug (and many others) have disrespected Cingrani with their misguided rankings. If anyone thinks Kyle Lotzkar is a better prospect than Tony Cingrani, I will be happy to explain the sport of baseball to them.
    Ok, please explain the sport to me. I expect an explanation of every single rule and regulation in the game. No copy and pasting.

    Fact is, I don't think I have seen anyone aside from Redszone, claim that Cingrani is the Reds best pitching prospect. Either all of the experts or wrong, or a small portion of the fans are.

  14. #178
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Jeez, guys. Can't you agree to disagree and let time decide who's being stupid about this? And when that day comes, feel more than free to say, "I told you so."

  15. #179
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    The only people who say I told you so are people who aren't right that often.

  16. #180
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The only people who say I told you so are people who aren't right that often.
    Alfred from Batman loves to say it to Bruce Wayne, and I don't recall him being wrong all that often.


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