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Thread: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

  1. #226
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Doug, this is just a silly thing to say.
    Parker won two batting titles and an MVP.
    He got derailed by a drug problem, but he was an awesome hitter, and very consistent

    Bruce is a nice player, but he's not a dominating hitter (at least not yet).
    Bruce is never going to win a batting title. He'll probably never win an MVP either.. I like Bruce a lot, he's a good player, but I don't think he'll ever get to Parker's level.
    All due respect, I think you're kind of missing the point. Doug is saying if you plop the 2012 version of Jay Bruce into the early 80's, he has a lot more success in comparison with the rest of the league than he does in the current era. Compared to his peers, Bruce is not a better player in his era than Parker, but if you compare Bruce's actual physical ability to Parker's (i.e., if they played in the exact same era), that Bruce would look pretty darn favorable in comparison to Parker.

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  3. #227
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    All due respect, I think you're kind of missing the point. Doug is saying if you plop the 2012 version of Jay Bruce into the early 80's, he has a lot more success in comparison with the rest of the league than he does in the current era. Compared to his peers, Bruce is not a better player in his era than Parker, but if you compare Bruce's actual physical ability to Parker's (i.e., if they played in the exact same era), that Bruce would look pretty darn favorable in comparison to Parker.
    I guess I disagree. No matter what the time machine does, Parker is a better player than Bruce is right now. Maybe Bruce eventually takes the next leap, but he's not there yet.

    It's all speculation though. Doug points out the average OPS for various positions in the 80's as evidence that today's hitters are better, yet also says that the 80's pitchers were inferior..

    Many factors are being overlooked. Back in the 80's, teams had 10 man pitching staffs. There was a long guy to bail the disaster starters out.. not like earlier in the year where Dusty would use Simon,Hoover, LeCure to cover maybe 4-5 innings in a blowout. Turf also makes a big difference. Other people touched on other things as well.

    I think it's hard to predict what someone like Cozart would do in the 80's.
    Someone's guess that he'd be a 3b on turf seems reasonable. I think he'd still be a power/OBP challenged guy. But would still be valuable.

    However, there's no doubt in my mind that Parker was a better player than Bruce is right now. Parker didn't disappear for weeks at a time like Bruce does. Not bashing Bruce, but he is pretty darn streaky.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #228
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Parker could play in any era, including today's, and be dominant. Parker's got the edge in the hit tool, defense, arm, and speed. They're just about even in terms of power, especially considering the ballparks and lighting. I'd stack Parker's baseball IQ up against anyone from today. Dude knew the game.

    Bruce? He's got power. Very good defender. Decent speed.

    No contest, IMO.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  5. #229
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Dave Parker in 1978/1979 was as frightening an opposing player for the Reds to face as anyone I have seen them face in my lifetime. His size, presence at the plate, bat control, power, all of it. A beast.

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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    He seemed to... loom. I'm not a good enough writer to paint a clearer picture than that. Parker loomed in the batting box better than any batter I say from that era.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  7. #231
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    He seemed to... loom. I'm not a good enough writer to paint a clearer picture than that. Parker loomed in the batting box better than any batter I say from that era.
    Perfect description. He was awe-inspring and terrifying in those days.

  8. #232
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Cingrani starts and ends like Cincinnati.

    That's another good sign. Ha.

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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Those Pirate teams always ticked me off as a young fan. Stargell was past his prime, but always seemed to find a way to beat my Reds. Candelaria, Tekulve, Jim Bibby always seemed to pitch gems against the BRM. They never solved Madlock.

    Then Johnny Ray and Tony Perez. Iron Mike Easler. (Hated to see him up to bat. Low line drive after low line drive.) Rick Rhoden. (How could I forget Rick Rhoden?)

    Hated those teams.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    This comment from a recent Klaw chat suggests he would have Cingrani in a current top 100:

    Dave (Connecticut): Just curious as to where Tony Cingrani would fall if you were to rank another 50 prospects? Thanks.
    Klaw: Probably in the last 25. Scouts like him but he's doing this more or less with one pitch.

  11. #235
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    He seemed to... loom. I'm not a good enough writer to paint a clearer picture than that. Parker loomed in the batting box better than any batter I say from that era.
    __________________

    great description
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  12. #236
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by treetops View Post
    This comment from a recent Klaw chat suggests he would have Cingrani in a current top 100:

    Dave (Connecticut): Just curious as to where Tony Cingrani would fall if you were to rank another 50 prospects? Thanks.
    Klaw: Probably in the last 25. Scouts like him but he's doing this more or less with one pitch.
    ....Doug is Keith Law????

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    Long live punishment
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  13. #237
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    ....Doug is Keith Law????

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



    I am not a big Keith Law fan. I respect what he does, but I often disagree with his opinions.

  14. #238
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Keith Law is the real 40-year-old virgin.

    (Sorry, Steve Carell.)

  15. #239
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Keith Law is the real 40-year-old virgin.

    (Sorry, Steve Carell.)
    Awesome
    "Losing feels worse than winning feels good." -Vin Scully

  16. #240
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Keith Law is the real 40-year-old virgin.

    (Sorry, Steve Carell.)
    lol.. I remember talking/argueing with him on rec.sport.baseball back before he became famous.

    He's actually matured a lot since then.. but that's an awesome description of him.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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