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Thread: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

  1. #1
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    Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Here's a quick look at how much NL managers have relied on their top 4 relievers (by appearances) vs. the rest of their bullpens, thru Sunday:

    % of relief innings pitched by top 4 relievers, in reverse order:

    Pirates 45% (87.2/184.2)
    Phillies 48% (82.3/170.3)
    Braves 50% (91/182)
    Giants 51% (92.1/179)
    Padres 52% (92/178)
    Mets 53% (92/173)
    Rockies 54% (113/209.1)
    Nats 55% (97/186.1)
    Cubs 57% (101/177)
    Marlins 58% (93/161)
    Dbacks 60% (100/166)
    Reds 63% (111/175.1)

    Factor in that one of the Reds top 4 is their closer, and you have an even more extreme pattern.
    Last edited by lollipopcurve; 06-12-2012 at 09:24 PM.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Seems the pattern has been the same in past years as well. I've no stats for that, but it's how I remember it.

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Here's a quick look at how much NL managers have relied on their top 4 relievers (by appearances) vs. the rest of their bullpens, thru Sunday:

    % of relief innings pitched by top 4 relievers, in reverse order:

    Pirates 45% (87.2/184.2)
    Phillies 48% (82.3/170.3)
    Braves 50% (91/182)
    Giants 51% (92.1/179)
    Padres 52% (92/178)
    Mets 53% (92/173)
    Rockies 54% (113/209.1)
    Nats 55% (97/186.1)
    Cubs 57% (101/177)
    Marlins 58% (93/161)
    Dbacks 60% (100/166)
    Reds 63% (111/175.1)

    Factor in that one of the Reds top 4 is their closer, and you have an even more extreme pattern.
    Sorry, I've got no problem with it. Reds have the best BP ERA in the league. Hard to argue with that. Now, batting line ups are a different story.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    What difference does it make?

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    What difference does it make?
    Pitcher fatigue.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    I don't think the percentage is the issue as much as the # of innings they have thrown which is 2nd most and not as out of whack as the %. Also would be curious to see how the # of outings plays out. The percentage could be indicative of the rest of the pen being weak but that does not seem to be the case.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Pitcher fatigue.
    Not if you are looking at percentage of bullpen innings. The Rockies look to be in a better spot than the Reds, until you look at total innings.

    First place, best bullpen around and this is where the complaints lie? Pretty ridiculous.

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Dusty should use Simon, Lecure and Hoover a bit more and the "big 4" a bit less. I think he will. He is aware of relief pitcher overuse, he gives them planned days of rest. He is not oblivious to this.

    Wear and tear on the pen may now, for the first time, be showing a bit. I think Dusty will respond and ease off these four guys a bit.

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Here's a quick look at how much NL managers have relied on their top 4 relievers (by appearances) vs. the rest of their bullpens, thru Sunday:

    % of relief innings pitched by top 4 relievers, in reverse order:

    Pirates 45% (87.2/184.2)
    Phillies 48% (82.3/170.3)
    Braves 50% (91/182)
    Giants 51% (92.1/179)
    Padres 52% (92/178)
    Mets 53% (92/173)
    Rockies 54% (113/209.1)
    Nats 55% (97/186.1)
    Cubs 57% (101/177)
    Marlins 58% (93/161)
    Dbacks 60% (100/166)
    Reds 63% (111/175.1)

    Factor in that one of the Reds top 4 is their closer, and you have an even more extreme pattern.
    Are the missing teams higher than us, I assume.

    Such as the Cards and the Brewers, our competition in the Central.

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    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Sorry, I've got no problem with it. Reds have the best BP ERA in the league. Hard to argue with that. Now, batting line ups are a different story.
    I do think Dusty needs to find a way to spread the usage out. He is stuck in the 'everyone has a role' thing. While that has some value, he simply is overusing Arredondo, Ondrusek, Marshall, and Chapman, and their effectiveness will not continue at this high level if he doesn't rest them more. We are lucky that Simon, Hoover, and LeCure are good enough to handle situations other than 'the Reds are way ahead or behind'.

    FWIW, where will Bray fit in when he comes back, hopefully soon?
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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    It happens

    Code:
    INNINGS PITCHED                 IP        G      RSAA      GS     
    1    Scott Sullivan            113.2       79       19        0   
    2    Danny Graves              111         75       18        0   
    3    Scott Williamson           93.1       62       22        0   
    4    Dennys Reyes               61.2       65        5        1   
    5    Gabe White                 61         50        1        0   
    6    Stan Belinda               42.2       29       -4        0   
    7    Rick Greene                 5.2        1        0        0   
    8    B.J. Ryan                   2          1        0        0   
    9    John Hudek                  1          2       -2        0

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    If it was two relievers, I'd be worried, but this just tells me the the Reds are one of the few teams that have four quality relievers that it can use in high leverage situations.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    I do think Dusty needs to find a way to spread the usage out. He is stuck in the 'everyone has a role' thing. While that has some value, he simply is overusing Arredondo, Ondrusek, Marshall, and Chapman, and their effectiveness will not continue at this high level if he doesn't rest them more. We are lucky that Simon, Hoover, and LeCure are good enough to handle situations other than 'the Reds are way ahead or behind'.

    FWIW, where will Bray fit in when he comes back, hopefully soon?
    When Bray comes back Hoover likely goes down. Bray will come in to face lefties, mostly. Bray should allow Marshall more rest and Marshall should not have to pitch in LOOGY spots as much.

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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Are the missing teams higher than us, I assume.

    Such as the Cards and the Brewers, our competition in the Central.
    Haven't got around to them yet.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Baker's reliance on 4 relievers

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Haven't got around to them yet.
    I'm showing the Reds top 4 at 106 1/3 inning, but granted I am doing this on my phone on the way to work.


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