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Thread: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

  1. #1
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    I said on FB sharing this blogpost, I still pinch myself that Seaver pitched for us for 6 seasons. Not sure it would have happened had the Blue trade not been negated by Bowie Kuhn, but can you imagine what a Reds rotation with Seaver & Blue together. And to think, we were a big money team then! And Seaver's lone no-hitter was with the Redlegs.

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0.../?ref=baseball

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Loved that feeling when they got him, it was ridiculous, the amount talent that team had (declining though)

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Seaver never comes to mind when I think about great Reds pitchers. Just can't disassociate him with the Miracle Mets.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    And yet, the Reds never got farther than the NLCS in those 6 seasons. The last two were particularly bad, and they are the two that I remember the most. 'That's why I have mixed feelings about the Seaver Era.

    Without digging into the history, I just generally know that the team shed payroll during that time, so I suspect Seaver came with some opportunity cost. In retrospect, it's probably a big part of why I don't get excited when the Reds commit a large chunk of their payroll to any player.
    /r/reds

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    And yet, the Reds never got farther than the NLCS in those 6 seasons. The last two were particularly bad, and they are the two that I remember the most. 'That's why I have mixed feelings about the Seaver Era.

    Without digging into the history, I just generally know that the team shed payroll during that time, so I suspect Seaver came with some opportunity cost. In retrospect, it's probably a big part of why I don't get excited when the Reds commit a large chunk of their payroll to any player.
    Payroll wasn't being shed, the real issue was it wasn't being increased along with the norm in the game, plus the Reds refused to cater agents, or play the FA market.

    Like the game everything ebbs and flows, the farm system stagnated and age arrived.


    What the Reds got was not the Seaver of the Mets, they got an older Seaver... who moved from a pitchers park with grass to a hitters park with plastic turf. That has a lot to do with his game not being the same along with age.

    But in the 6 years he was there he gave the team a workhorse and a guy that was top ten in batters faced with plus numbers.

    Sure we'll always remember him as a Met, the press wrote that story for us, they reinforce it, the 69 team screams it. No one talks about Joe Morgan as an Astro or Giant (albeit he'll likely be on the 1982 bobblehead they are having on the 30th against the Reds)


    Code:
    ATIONAL LEAGUE
    CAREER
    1977-1982
    
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    NEUTRAL WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    NEUTRAL LOSSES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    BATTERS FACED                   BFP      IP       N_W      N_L      ERA    
    1    Phil Niekro                6937   1655.1      104       78     0.22   
    2    Steve Carlton              6354   1571        108       67     0.84   
    3    Steve Rogers               6063   1488         95       60     0.80   
    4    Joe Niekro                 5532   1339         85       75     0.55   
    5    Don Sutton                 5137   1270.2       74       60     0.57   
    6    Bob Forsch                 5131   1241.2       69       68     0.07   
    7    Bob Knepper                5028   1185.1       64       64     0.08   
    8    Tom Seaver                 4838   1181.2       73       58     0.51   
    9    Burt Hooton                4656   1141         70       49     0.68   
    10   Dick Ruthven               4562   1079.1       63       63     -.31

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    Member RedsfaninMT's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Only Reds game I ever taped was Seaver's no hitter. The recording was using my brand-spanking new casette recorder, and the quality was terribe. And some darned teenager (me) screaming when Marty made the no hitter official made it almost impossible to hear the final out - and Marty was very excited.

    No, I did not have the expressed written consent of the Reds or Major League Baseball. Never played it for anyone else, and long since lost the tape, though if I still had it, I'd have no means of listening to it either. A casette tape? Even worse, an 8-track?

    I was so sure that trade had set the Reds up for more Series wins. It just seemed like life was supposed to be that way. The Reds would be in the WS, and it would always be that way.

    Just one more time in my lifetime would make me very happy.

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    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsfaninMT View Post
    Only Reds game I ever taped was Seaver's no hitter. The recording was using my brand-spanking new casette recorder, and the quality was terribe. And some darned teenager (me) screaming when Marty made the no hitter official made it almost impossible to hear the final out - and Marty was very excited.
    I didn't realize this until a few years ago, but my mom went into labor at 7 pm on June 16, 1978, i.e., the exact time that game was beginning. I took a day and a half to be born, but I like to think I was so thrilled about the Reds even in the womb that it took Seaver's no-hitter to get me going
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    One the most exciting days I can remember that didn't involve a Reds win. When they got Seaver I thought they had the divison rapped up. But that 1977 team just didn't have very much pitching at all. Borbon was the only reliable bullpen arm and he was used way too much. Like WOY said, Seaver was starting to decline too. He had to start transitioning from power pitcher to more of a finesse pitcher. He was still very good. In 1981 he went 14-2 and would have won the Cy Young award if not for Fernando Valenzuela's great year. I do still think of Seaver as a Met first but it sure was nice having him as a Red for a few seasons.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I said on FB sharing this blogpost, I still pinch myself that Seaver pitched for us for 6 seasons. Not sure it would have happened had the Blue trade not been negated by Bowie Kuhn, but can you imagine what a Reds rotation with Seaver & Blue together. And to think, we were a big money team then! And Seaver's lone no-hitter was with the Redlegs.

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0.../?ref=baseball

    The Seaver trade happened before Doofus Bowie Kuhn negated the acquisition of Vida Blue, as the Reds acquired Seaver in June 1977 and then traded for Blue after the 1977 season. Although Blue pitched poorly in 1979 he was still a very good pitcher in 1978. Had Kuhn not nixed the trade the 1978 Reds, with a rotation achored by Seaver and Blue, may very well have won the NL West. Had that happened, Dick "The Blade" Wagner may not have fired Sparky Anderson.
    I still want to puke everytime I think about Kuhn being in the Hall of Fame.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    The Seaver trade happened before Doofus Bowie Kuhn negated the acquisition of Vida Blue, as the Reds acquired Seaver in June 1977 and then traded for Blue after the 1977 season. Although Blue pitched poorly in 1979 he was still a very good pitcher in 1978. Had Kuhn not nixed the trade the 1978 Reds, with a rotation achored by Seaver and Blue, may very well have won the NL West. Had that happened, Dick "The Blade" Wagner may not have fired Sparky Anderson.
    Thanks for fixing my historical error.
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    I didn't realize this until a few years ago, but my mom went into labor at 7 pm on June 16, 1978, i.e., the exact time that game was beginning. I took a day and a half to be born, but I like to think I was so thrilled about the Reds even in the womb that it took Seaver's no-hitter to get me going
    MERCY, that makes me feel old!

    I was out of state and could NOT find a Reds' broadcast on the radio (and in those days, if you were anywhere east of the Mississippi River, you could usually find the Reds on radio) the night Seaver pitched his no hitter.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    The Reds also could have had Mike Flanagan but he wouldn;t cut his sideburns so they traded him and he was in the running for a Cy Young award in Milwaukee winning 22 games or something like that. Their stubbornness about facial hair, refusal to deal with agents and Bowie Kuhn's command kept them from having a rotation of Tom Seaver, Don Gullett, Mike Flanagan, Gary Nolan, and Vida Blue!

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    The Reds also could have had Mike Flanagan but he wouldn;t cut his sideburns so they traded him and he was in the running for a Cy Young award in Milwaukee winning 22 games or something like that. Their stubbornness about facial hair, refusal to deal with agents and Bowie Kuhn's command kept them from having a rotation of Tom Seaver, Don Gullett, Mike Flanagan, Gary Nolan, and Vida Blue!
    Caldwell is who you mean I believe

    And he was a soft tosser who learned the wonders if the spitter from George Bamburger... Not that there is anything wrong with that,

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    The Reds also could have had Mike Flanagan but he wouldn;t cut his sideburns so they traded him and he was in the running for a Cy Young award in Milwaukee winning 22 games or something like that. Their stubbornness about facial hair, refusal to deal with agents and Bowie Kuhn's command kept them from having a rotation of Tom Seaver, Don Gullett, Mike Flanagan, Gary Nolan, and Vida Blue!
    Yea and imagine if Mr. Soto and Mrs. Soto met a few years earlier we could have had Mario in that rotation. Darn our luck!!!
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Caldwell is who you mean I believe

    And he was a soft tosser who learned the wonders if the spitter from George Bamburger... Not that there is anything wrong with that,
    It was Caldwell. Sparky barely used him as reliever but he was decent.

    I love Sparky and all but even if that was how it was done....the way he overused Borbon in 1977..... Borbon and Sarmiento in 1978 was criminal.


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