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Thread: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

  1. #1
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    How much money was wasted on this frivolousness?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Does he think the writers will vote him into the Hall now?

    I don't see how they can say he didn't lie since his trainer had DNA evidence

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Clemens is a liar and a juicer. THAT is the truth.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

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    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    I'm stunned. This is sooooooooooooo wrong.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    If the glove doesn't fit.....

    Ooops, sorry. Wrong decade.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  8. #7
    Worth The Wait
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Everyone involved in this thing is a slimeball. Probably didn't have quite enough evidence to convict in large part because McNamee is hardly credible himself. Hopefully, this story can go away now and jurors can stop falling asleep...I don't blame them...this was a tired story two years ago. Clemens did it, we all know he did...whatever. Glad it's done.

  9. #8
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    He's already guilty in the court of public opinion; this won't affect that.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Perjury is one of the hardest convictions to get in court.

    Celebrities are nearly impossible to convict in court, especially by a jury.

    Everyone knows he's guilty, this should have been expected, and doesn't change a thing.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  11. #10
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    How much money was wasted on this frivolousness?
    Hardly frivolous. If it were, the judge would have thrown it out at the first chance. Judges have way too many cases on their dockets to worry about cases with no chance of winning. I think the problem with the prosecution's case was that, when you have a case where the defendant and the prosecuting witness are both dirtbags, the jury will side with the defendant, just because the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. If it were a civil case, the jury might have gone the other way, ruling against the bigger dirtbag.

    I once helped out an attorney defending a child rape case. The victim's family was basically running a flophouse for all kinds of unsavory characters and were downstairs drunk and high playing video games when the incident occurred. The defendant was found guilty, but only because, on the night before the last day of trial, he admitted on the jail phone to his mom that he did it and it was recorded by the sheriff's department. The jury told us that, had he not admitted it on the phone, they would have acquitted him because all the prosecution's witnesses were dirtbags who they couldn't trust. So just because the jury doesn't pass down a criminal conviction doesn't necessarily mean Clemens didn't do it.

    I think it's likely that Clemens juiced, just because Andy Pettite indicated as much in his testimony to Congress, corroborating some of McNamee's testimony. While I don't think much of McNamee, I think Pettite is a stand up guy and wouldn't make up that kind of stuff to take down Clemens, whom he considered a friend.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  12. #11
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I think it's likely that Clemens juiced, just because Andy Pettite indicated as much in his testimony to Congress, corroborating some of McNamee's testimony. While I don't think much of McNamee, I think Pettite is a stand up guy and wouldn't make up that kind of stuff to take down Clemens, whom he considered a friend.
    I think Pettitte kind of weaseled out on this one because under cross examination by Clemens' attorney, Pettitte said that he was 50% sure his recollection was correct. That's weak and makes it sound like he was afraid Clemens might not speak to him again

  13. #12
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Hardly frivolous. If it were, the judge would have thrown it out at the first chance. Judges have way too many cases on their dockets to worry about cases with no chance of winning. I think the problem with the prosecution's case was that, when you have a case where the defendant and the prosecuting witness are both dirtbags, the jury will side with the defendant, just because the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. If it were a civil case, the jury might have gone the other way, ruling against the bigger dirtbag.

    I once helped out an attorney defending a child rape case. The victim's family was basically running a flophouse for all kinds of unsavory characters and were downstairs drunk and high playing video games when the incident occurred. The defendant was found guilty, but only because, on the night before the last day of trial, he admitted on the jail phone to his mom that he did it and it was recorded by the sheriff's department. The jury told us that, had he not admitted it on the phone, they would have acquitted him because all the prosecution's witnesses were dirtbags who they couldn't trust. So just because the jury doesn't pass down a criminal conviction doesn't necessarily mean Clemens didn't do it.

    I think it's likely that Clemens juiced, just because Andy Pettite indicated as much in his testimony to Congress, corroborating some of McNamee's testimony. While I don't think much of McNamee, I think Pettite is a stand up guy and wouldn't make up that kind of stuff to take down Clemens, whom he considered a friend.
    Exactly why I found it frivolous. Using one known liar to try and convict another known liar. Waste. of. time.

    I'm guessing the judge felt immense pressure from certain entities to make sure this case was heard after the gov't already had wasted hundreds of thousands if not millions trying to nail Clemens to the wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  14. #13
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    I thought i read it cost the government close to 120 million, but when i read that figure i thought it was a mis-print.

  15. #14
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Exactly why I found it frivolous. Using one known liar to try and convict another known liar. Waste. of. time.

    I'm guessing the judge felt immense pressure from certain entities to make sure this case was heard after the gov't already had wasted hundreds of thousands if not millions trying to nail Clemens to the wall.
    If prosecutors only used squeaky clean witnesses, there would be a lot more criminals walking around on the street. The unfortunate reality we live in is that dirtbags hang out with dirtbags. In a substantial portion of criminal cases, the prosecution's main witness is someone involved in criminal activity themselves. Why? Because those are usually the only other people in a position to know details about the crimes committed. Look at Pete Rose. When he got banned for betting on baseball and then sent to prison for tax evasion for failing to report his earnings, who were the witnesses? Paul Janszen, a steroid dealer, Ron Peters, bookmaker and cocaine dealer, and Tommy Gioiosa, Rose's runner who went down for transporting cocaine and tax fraud. Does that mean Rose didn't bet on baseball? No. He admits it now after years of calling these guys lying scum. Sound familiar, Mr. Clemens?

    Really, if McNamee is such a sketchy guy, why is Clemens using him as his personal trainer and having him at his house all the time? Could it be that Clemens is pretty sketchy himself? Could it be that Clemens hired McNamee because he was a guy who was willing and able to get steroids and/or HGH through illicit means? If a guy wants to use PEDs, chances are he isn't calling up Mr. Upstanding Citizen to do his bidding.

    Why are people so willing to accept that Barry Bonds was on steroids, but that Roger Clemens is some hard done guy who is the victim of a smear campaign by a scheming ex-employee?
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  16. #15
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Clemens found not guilty on all counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Why are people so willing to accept that Barry Bonds was on steroids, but that Roger Clemens is some hard done guy who is the victim of a smear campaign by a scheming ex-employee?
    "People" in this case are the jurors. I'm pretty sure if you ran a poll here asking if we thought Clemens juiced, most would say yes.

    From what I read, the jurors were people (8 women, 4 men), who knew little and/or cared little about sports in general and baseball in particular.

    That's how they are chosen these days. You'll never find an accountant on a financial fraud case jury or a social worker on a domestic violence case.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com


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