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Thread: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

  1. #16
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    "Fame." He doesn't posses the "fame" as one of the best players in the game. He just isn't a Hall of Famer in the way Ryne Sandberg or Roberto Alomar are. He's more of a Lou Whitaker-type (although a tick better than Sweet Lou) -- a good ballplayer who flashes greatness.
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  3. #17
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    So the question is (as long as he puts up the offensive numbers mentioned above and wins at least 8 GG's), IN YOUR OPINION, can (or will) Brandon earn his way to the HOF by the time he plays out his contract in 2017?

    2000+ hits, 250+ HR, 1000+ RBI, 200+ SB, 100+ OPS…with at least 8 gold gloves. Is that enough to get him in the HOF?
    Not a chance at all. The only reason Phillips could make the Hall is if he plays out his contract with some monster seasons. By monster, I mean significantly better than any season he's put up thus far (we're probably talking in the 130 OPS+ range).

    Phillips is a good defensive second basemen, but he's not all world great like Mazeroski was at second (or Smith at SS). Those two guys are likely the best ever with the gloves up the middle, and that's why they're in. I look at a guy such as Bobby Grich, for example, and compare him to Phillips. Like Phillips, Grich was good defensively. But Grich was also a much better offensive player relative to his era.

    Phillips will have a very deserving plaque in the museum on Joe Nuxhall Way, but he's a long way from Cooperstown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    "Fame." He doesn't posses the "fame" as one of the best players in the game. He just isn't a Hall of Famer in the way Ryne Sandberg or Roberto Alomar are. He's more of a Lou Whitaker-type (although a tick better than Sweet Lou) -- a good ballplayer who flashes greatness.
    Whitaker was a better player than Phillips - 117 OPS+ for Lou vs. 97 OPS+ for Phillips. Whitaker's peak was also better than any of Phillips' best seasons, plus Sweet Lou was a fine defender himself.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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  4. #18
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Phillips is a good defensive second basemen, but he's not all world great like Mazeroski was at second (or Smith at SS). Those two guys are likely the best ever with the gloves up the middle, and that's why they're in.
    Mazeroski was undoubtedly great with the glove (Bill James argues he might be the best defender ever). But he is only enshrined in Cooperstown because of one timely home run that made everybody remember his name.

    As for BP, after looking more closely at the numbers he'd have to put up I'm going to jump into the "no way" camp.

  5. #19
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    I would love to be in Cincinnati when BP gets inducted into the Reds Hall of Fame, but I can't see him getting the call from Cooperstown.
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  6. #20
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    If he doubles his career stats to this point he's still a no way. He'd have to, as others have said, put up some monster seasons from here on out. 2007 season, or even a little better.

    So not likely. Bill James puts potential active players into HoF monitor at the back of his yearly stats book. I'll look tonight, but BP isn't in the 5% likely category IIRC.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  7. #21
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post

    So not likely. Bill James puts potential active players into HoF monitor at the back of his yearly stats book. I'll look tonight, but BP isn't in the 5% likely category IIRC.
    He figures to climb this list over the next few years, but he's pretty far down there right now, as you indicate.

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  8. #22
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Mazeroski was undoubtedly great with the glove (Bill James argues he might be the best defender ever). But he is only enshrined in Cooperstown because of one timely home run that made everybody remember his name.
    Mazeroski's home run certainly didn't hurt his Hall chances, but that's not the primary reason he's in. Defense got him there - if you're arguably the greatest defender ever at a prime spot like second base, then that's a pretty good case for the Hall.

    Joe Carter put up a very good career himself (I didn't realize he hit almost 400 homers until just now). Nevertheless, his home run isn't going to carry him into the Hall.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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  9. #23
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Not a chance

  10. #24
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Well, if Sandberg is in, there is always a chance for a guy like Phillips.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  11. #25
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Well, if Sandberg is in, there is always a chance for a guy like Phillips.
    Sandberg was a significantly better hitter than Phillips is. He also had 9 gold gloves and 10 all star appearances.

  12. #26
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Well, if Sandberg is in, there is always a chance for a guy like Phillips.
    Sandberg was a Gold Glover after his age-23 season and went to 10 straight All-Star games starting the next year. He was also a league MVP at an age before BP even looked like a Major Leaguer. It was a different era when there was less offense, so his offensive numbers were even more impressive. Also, you never saw that kind of production from a second baseman back then. Phillips might not even go to the All-Star game this year despite putting up some of the best numbers of his life.

    Sandberg deserved the call to the Hall. But unless BP is putting up similar numbers into his early-to-mid 40s, he's got no chance.

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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    "Fame." He doesn't posses the "fame" as one of the best players in the game. He just isn't a Hall of Famer in the way Ryne Sandberg or Roberto Alomar are. He's more of a Lou Whitaker-type (although a tick better than Sweet Lou) -- a good ballplayer who flashes greatness.
    I don't know- Craig Biggio was very good but didn't ooze greatness. With a few more great years, I could see BP approaching Biggio territory.
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  14. #28
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Sandberg was a Gold Glover after his age-23 season and went to 10 straight All-Star games starting the next year. He was also a league MVP at an age before BP even looked like a Major Leaguer. It was a different era when there was less offense, so his offensive numbers were even more impressive. Also, you never saw that kind of production from a second baseman back then. Sandberg deserved the call to the Hall. Unless BP is putting up similar numbers into his early-to-mid 40s, he's got no chance.
    Sandberg played when there were no other decent 2B in the league, and he played for a WGN audience. He doesn't win a single gold glove if he played ten years earlier, or now.

    If he's in, so should Lou Whitker, Jeff Kent and Bobby Grich.

    One of the most over rated players in the 80's, especially defensively, imo.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  16. #29
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I don't know- Craig Biggio was very good but didn't ooze greatness. With a few more great years, I could see BP approaching Biggio territory.
    Biggio was a much better hitter than BP though, including reaching that magical 3000 hit number. Phillips won't come close to that.
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  17. #30
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Looking just a WAR for a rough guideline, Ryne Sandberg had 62.6. Jeff Kent had 61.1. Chase Utley is at 51.

    In terms of other similar active 2Bs, Phillips is 1 behind Ian Kinsler and 2 behind Dustin Pedroia.

    Basically, if Phillips put up his career-high 2011 line for every year of his Reds contact, he'd enter his late 30s still needing a few more years of good production to be hall worthy.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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