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Thread: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

  1. #31
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    He figures to climb this list over the next few years, but he's pretty far down there right now, as you indicate.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le..._monitor.shtml
    Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor has a score based upon a player's statistical accomplishments, all star selections, awards, post season appearances, etc. The average Hall of Famer has a score of 100. Brandon Phiilips has a score of 24.
    If Phiilips was, say, age 25, a score of 24 wouldn't be that bad. At age 31 later this month, that is a score that says it is very unlikely he will make the HOF.
    George Anderson posted Phillips's comparable players at age 30, his last full season, and noted that only Joe Gordon, with a comp score of 906, made the HOF. Jeff Kent had a comp score of 907 and may make the HOF, but Kent had just started racking up big numbers at that point in his career. For Phillips to make the HOF he will probably have to indeed put together another six seasons like his last six to have any chance, and it is unlikely that he will maintain that standard as he ages.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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  3. #32
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Craig Biggio was probably one of the top eight or ten second basemen ever.
    Here are the Hall of Fame Monitor score of five second basemen mentioned in this thread:
    Roberto Alomar: 194
    Craig Biggio: 169
    Ryne Sandberg: 158
    Lou Whitaker: 92
    Brandon Phillips: 24

    Hey I'm a Reds fan too but let's not get ridiculous.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  4. #33
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Sandberg played when there were no other decent 2B in the league, and he played for a WGN audience. He doesn't win a single gold glove if he played ten years earlier, or now.

    If he's in, so should Lou Whitker, Jeff Kent and Bobby Grich.

    One of the most over rated players in the 80's, especially defensively, imo.
    If you show me any data to say he's overrated, I bet I can come up with better data that shows you're wrong. Do Whitaker, Kent, and Grich belong in the Hall? Maybe, maybe not. But Brandon Phillips' accomplishments clearly put him a huge notch below all of them, and unless he's doing crazy things in his 40s--which he won't be--he deserves no chance for consideration.

  5. #34
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    He figures to climb this list over the next few years, but he's pretty far down there right now, as you indicate.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le..._monitor.shtml
    Willy Tavares is at an 8!
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  6. #35
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    I always thought Grich should have gotten more consideration and that Whitaker should be in. Middle infielders didn't hit that much then (or do they now after the stetoid revolution).

    Brandon will be in the Reds Hall of Fame.

    What about Utley? Does he have a shot?
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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  8. #36
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    If you show me any data to say he's overrated, I bet I can come up with better data that shows you're wrong. Do Whitaker, Kent, and Grich belong in the Hall? Maybe, maybe not. But Brandon Phillips' accomplishments clearly put him a huge notch below all of them, and unless he's doing crazy things in his 40s--which he won't be--he deserves no chance for consideration.
    Data shamata. Over rated is about perception.

    Put Sandberg on almost any other team that wasn't broadcasting its games nationally every day, and he'd be considered a very good ball player. But there were others just as good as him that have never even been considered for the Hall.

    The Hall is all about Fame, maybe it should be, but that's what it is. it's not the Hall of the Best Players, it's the Hall of the Players the media loved the most, and Sandberg is a prime example.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #37
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Data shamata. Over rated is about perception.

    Put Sandberg on almost any other team that wasn't broadcasting its games nationally every day, and he'd be considered a very good ball player. But there were others just as good as him that have never even been considered for the Hall.

    The Hall is all about Fame, maybe it should be, but that's what it is. it's not the Hall of the Best Players, it's the Hall of the Players the media loved the most, and Sandberg is a prime example.
    Who was just as good as him and never even considered for the Hall? And I'd be willing to bet that more famous players didn't make it to the Hall while less famous players did.

  10. #38
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Who was just as good as him and never even considered for the Hall? And I'd be willing to bet that more famous players didn't make it to the Hall while less famous players did.
    Lou Whitaker. If Sandberg is in then Whitaker should be in. Sandberg did not deserve to win all those gold gloves. He was an overrated defensive SS.

    Whitaker with 2369 H, 244 HR, 1084 RBI, and an OPS+ of 117.
    Sandberg with 2386 H 282 HR, 1061 RBI, and an OPS+ of 114.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 06-19-2012 at 07:24 PM.

  11. #39
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Whittaker was a nice player, Sandberg was a stud

  12. #40
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    The numbers don't back that up.

  13. #41
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Whitaker didn't get the credit he deserved, and if it were up to me, he'd be in the Hall of Fame. But I wouldn't say Ryne Sandberg didn't belong.

  14. #42
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Whittaker was a nice player, Sandberg was a stud
    I rest my case. Both were nice players, one had a higher "Q" factor. Neither belong in the Hall.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #43
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I rest my case. Both were nice players, one had a higher "Q" factor. Neither belong in the Hall.
    I'd argue that both belong, but at least we can agree that they belong together, wherever it is.

  16. #44
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    Re: Brandon Phillips......future Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Who was just as good as him and never even considered for the Hall? And I'd be willing to bet that more famous players didn't make it to the Hall while less famous players did.
    I already did. Add Willie Randoph, just off the top of my head.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  17. #45
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I rest my case. Both were nice players, one had a higher "Q" factor. Neither belong in the Hall.
    One racked up TB in an era that lacked power, both played in hitters parks and took advantage of it.

    Sandberg was a lot like Dale Murphy with a very high peak and a declining end


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