If he wasn't a HOF player last June and only OPSd. 750 last year and didn't win the GG and is OPSing. 794 this year what criteria is being used to vote him in in May a year later?
If he wasn't a HOF player last June and only OPSd. 750 last year and didn't win the GG and is OPSing. 794 this year what criteria is being used to vote him in in May a year later?
Bobby Grich should have made it. Lou Whitaker also.
Brandon will have to one of those fine wine guys (better with age) to have a shot.
At least he'll get "leadership brownie points" when his name comes up, due to his demeanor.
It seems like it's been tough for second basemen to get in.
Cano looks like a lock, though, if he can keep going 4-5 more years.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
http://dalmady.blogspot.com
Always Red (05-23-2013)
Sure its important!!! The reality is counting stats do matter when a player is done and you are comparing his career. Lets say Brandon Phillips drives in an average of 120 runs over the next 4 years, that would be pretty impressive wouldn't it?
I don't think Brandon is a HOF nor do I think he will achieve that status. I think he has solidified himself as the best defensive 2b in the game right now. I also think with him in the middle of the order, especially this season, he has the potential to be in the MVP conversation. If he has a run of 4 big years with a MVP what would that do to his HOF status?
Career RBI is determined by three things
1. Great players
2. Longevity
3. High scoring environments
Of the top ten guys all but Eddie Murray played a portion (if not all) in a high scoring environment and 1/2 of them have over 10000 ab's.
So let's look at Brandon's compared to active players at the end of last year.Code:CAREER AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria RBI RBI AB 1 Hank Aaron 2297 12364 2 Babe Ruth 2210 8399 3 Barry Bonds 1996 9847 4 Lou Gehrig 1995 8001 5 Stan Musial 1951 10972 6 Alex Rodriguez 1950 9662 7 Ty Cobb 1933 11434 8 Jimmie Foxx 1921 8134 9 Eddie Murray 1917 11336 10 Willie Mays 1903 10881
Tied with Jeff Francoeur
Code:RBI RBI AB 1 Alex Rodriguez 1950 9662 2 Jim Thome 1699 8422 3 Chipper Jones 1623 8984 4 Albert Pujols 1434 6919 5 Jason Giambi 1405 7021 6 Carlos Lee 1363 7983 7 Bobby Abreu 1349 8347 8 Todd Helton 1346 7565 9 Paul Konerko 1336 7718 10 David Ortiz 1326 6539 11 Andruw Jones 1289 7599 12 Scott Rolen 1287 7398 13 Derek Jeter 1254 10551 14 Carlos Beltran 1243 7314 15 Aramis Ramirez 1227 6863 16 Adrian Beltre 1215 7965 17 Lance Berkman 1200 6235 18 Torii Hunter 1143 7181 19 Johnny Damon 1139 9736 20 Miguel Cabrera 1123 5663 21 Raul Ibanez 1116 6771 22 Mark Teixeira 1101 5664 23 Alfonso Soriano 1035 6943 24 Adam Dunn 1018 5929 25 Michael Young 984 7399 26 Omar Vizquel 951 10586 27 Ryan Howard 920 4054 28 Vernon Wells 908 6218 29 Aubrey Huff 904 6104 30 Matt Holliday 872 4878 31 Eric Chavez 850 5221 32 David Wright 818 4742 33 Jimmy Rollins 793 7490 34 Carlos Pena 791 4610 35 Justin Morneau 786 4254 36 Prince Fielder 764 4108 37 Hideki Matsui 760 4442 38 Ramon Hernandez 751 5057 39 Adrian Gonzalez 750 4426 40 Chase Utley 739 4434 41 Jason Bay 734 4299 42 A.J. Pierzynski 730 5795 43 Robinson Cano 715 4731 44 Mark Kotsay 708 6309 45 Placido Polanco 700 6837 46 Travis Hafner 694 3796 47 Adam LaRoche 684 4159 48 Alex Gonzalez 680 5633 49 Nick Swisher 673 4241 50 Carl Crawford 667 5615 51 Ichiro Suzuki 660 8085 52 Juan Uribe 644 4789 T53 Jhonny Peralta 643 4708 T53 Ryan Braun 643 3477 55 Brandon Inge 641 4909 56 Michael Cuddyer 639 4430 57 Alex Rios 627 4926 58 Dan Uggla 625 4050 59 Kevin Youkilis 610 3644 60 Brian McCann 604 3507 T61 Brandon Phillips 601 4577 T61 Jeff Francoeur 601 4358 63 Ryan Zimmerman 593 3861 T64 Curtis Granderson 591 4224 T64 Ty Wigginton 591 4422 66 Joe Mauer 587 3933 67 Rafael Furcal 585 6441 68 Lyle Overbay 581 4399 69 Adam Kennedy 571 5473 70 Josh Hamilton 553 2825 71 Nick Markakis 549 4055 72 Josh Willingham 544 3226 73 Orlando Hudson 542 4825 74 Juan Rivera 539 3471 75 Andre Ethier 535 3524 76 Ryan Ludwick 530 3063 T77 Hanley Ramirez 526 3924 T77 Matt Kemp 526 3265 79 Jason Kubel 519 3065 T80 Eric Hinske 516 3745 T80 Hunter Pence 516 3473 82 Aaron Hill 510 4059 83 Juan Pierre 509 7217 84 Corey Hart 508 3443 85 Jose Bautista 503 3168 86 Edwin Encarnacion 502 3273 87 Mark Reynolds 501 2973 88 Jayson Werth 495 3380 89 Austin Kearns 494 3579 90 Mark Ellis 490 4506 91 David DeJesus 486 4303 T92 Brian Roberts 482 4949 T92 Delmon Young 482 3358 T94 Jose Lopez 480 3841 T94 Rod Barajas 480 3460 T94 Billy Butler 480 3186 T94 Geoff Blum 480 3966 T94 Jose Reyes 480 5095 99 Miguel Olivo 479 3668 100 Marco Scutaro 478 4388
If you want to see how things could go wrong, check Orlando Hudson's numbers through age 31. Pretty much like Brandon's (or better).
Three years later, he's out of baseball.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
http://dalmady.blogspot.com
Code:CAREER 1993-2012 2B AGE <= 32 OBA displayed only--not a sorting criteria SLG displayed only--not a sorting criteria AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria OPS OPS OBA SLG AB 1 Chase Utley .882 .377 .505 4133 2 Craig Biggio .875 .399 .476 3470 3 Roberto Alomar .869 .388 .482 4259 4 Jeff Kent .859 .353 .506 3587 5 Robinson Cano .854 .351 .503 4731 6 Dustin Pedroia .830 .369 .461 3388 7 Jose Vidro .828 .365 .463 4088 8 Alfonso Soriano .825 .322 .503 3197 9 Chuck Knoblauch .824 .391 .433 4380 10 Dan Uggla .813 .343 .469 4050 11 Ian Kinsler .811 .350 .460 3656 12 Todd Walker .798 .352 .447 3826 13 Ray Durham .788 .354 .434 5360 14 Brian Roberts .784 .360 .424 4447 15 Marcus Giles .782 .353 .429 2934 16 Placido Polanco .781 .356 .425 3667 17 Rickie Weeks .779 .350 .429 3454 18 Jose Offerman .776 .373 .404 2592 19 Kelly Johnson .771 .339 .432 3008 20 Orlando Hudson .770 .346 .424 4167 21 Eric Young .769 .372 .397 2954 22 Carlos Baerga .764 .328 .436 3105 23 Bret Boone .762 .323 .439 4405 24 Aaron Hill .762 .325 .437 3698 25 Howie Kendrick .758 .330 .429 2755 26 Brandon Phillips .755 .322 .433 4577 27 Damion Easley .752 .338 .414 3677 28 Ron Belliard .750 .338 .412 4323 29 Fernando Vina .747 .356 .391 3244 30 Joey Cora .743 .352 .391 2422 31 Mark Ellis .740 .333 .407 3175 32 Delino DeShields .736 .352 .384 3690 33 Quilvio Veras .734 .372 .362 2780 34 Mike Lansing .730 .323 .408 3307 35 Mickey Morandini .730 .352 .378 2867
I'm kinda surprised that Phillips would be seriously considered a HOFer by some.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Bumstead (05-23-2013)
With a career OPS+ of only 97, the better question may be whether or not Brandon is actually a little overrated. Even without the Cleveland years his OPS+ is 102, just slightly above average.
I still think he is an excellent player, but not HOF
HOF'er? No. Really good player for the Reds and a fan favorite? Yes.
New York Red (05-23-2013)
In order for Brandon Phillips to make the HOF he would have to improve so dramatically as a hitter over the next 5 seasons that everyone would assume that he was on PEDs and wouldn't vote for him on that basis.
George Anderson (05-23-2013)
R_Webb18 (05-23-2013)
Wow. You feel better now?
You know, I’m not someone that just started posting on the Redzone in last month, George.
You want to disagree and think there is no way BP has a chance? Fine, tell me why or just say that you don’t think it’s possible. Take a step back. There really is no place for the insulting jab.
It seems to me that there’s been a bit much of this kind of thing lately. Ridiculing posts. Ridiculing posters. Sure, there have been some questionable posts and even more questionable threads started on some questionable topics. I would think those would fade away from the front page if they were simply ignored. Of course, it’s not possible to fade away when everyone jumps in to tell the poster how stupid they are and then others jump in to pat those jumpers on the back for putting that “stupid” poster in his/her place. Honestly, what if the poster was a kid? What if it the poster was a casual fan that was just starting to get into the Reds? Does it feel good to chase those away? Does that make you feel superior? As an ump, I would think you’d be the opposite of that pack of wolves (mob) mentality. Not you necessarily, but some on here probably spend half of their posts ridiculing posts in one way or another.
You know, I found this board to pretty damn boring the past few years with the split. It’s been entertaining to see new “blood” on there and to interact with a larger group of people that were “called up” from the Sundeck. Let’s be honest, we all love the Reds and this is a fun thing, but If this is what this place has become, maybe I’ll find another place to discuss the Reds. Too bad it’s when our boys are playing the best baseball they’ve played in a very long time.
Go back and read my original post one more time. Did that really warrant the dismissive post? And Sean Casey? Yeah okay.
membengal (05-24-2013),redsfandan (05-24-2013)
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