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Thread: Tucker Barnhart...

  1. #1
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Tucker Barnhart...

    Someone's on fire (no "Blaze" pun intended):

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats...pbp&pid=571466


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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    3 more years for Tuck then the majors, just as Hannigan gets expensive..

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    Member RedLegsToday's Avatar
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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    a very Vottoesque last 10 games.

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    3 more years for Tuck then the majors, just as Hannigan gets expensive..
    Could be two, or a season and a half.

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    So thanks to bb-ref's new splits info I've been learning more about these prospects. Here is Barnhart's OPS vs RHP the last three years

    2011: .527
    2012: .438
    2013: .522

    Is it common to finally pull the plug on switch hitting? He's about an .800 ops bat vs RHP as a lefty hitter. Would he be materially worse vs. LHP as a LHB? Does seeing both sides of the plate help his game calling behind it? It's interesting because he's been considered one of the very top defensive catchers in the minors, he can really hit RHP, so when is his eta really? Can he be a faster riser?

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    So thanks to bb-ref's new splits info I've been learning more about these prospects. Here is Barnhart's OPS vs RHP the last three years
    2011: .527
    2012: .438
    2013: .522

    Is it common to finally pull the plug on switch hitting? He's about an .800 ops bat vs RHP as a lefty hitter. Would he be materially worse vs. LHP as a LHB? Does seeing both sides of the plate help his game calling behind it? It's interesting because he's been considered one of the very top defensive catchers in the minors, he can really hit RHP, so when is his eta really? Can he be a faster riser?
    I think you are saying that Barnhart struggles against LHP and hits against RHP. I think it's time to push Barnhart to AAA and have him ready to be the back-up catcher on opening day, 2014. Ryan Hanigan will be 33 in August, his deal is coming to an end, his offense continues to decline and the pitcher to whom he is most associated with as his personal catcher will likely be leaving town as a free agent.

    Devin Mesoraco has taken a big step forward on offense and defense this year and hits LHP very well. The Reds offense needs the boost that he can provide and IMO it's time to shift the PT allocation to more of a 60-40 split (at least) in Mes' favor for the rest of 2013. Hanigan can be peddled after the season for something useful and Mesoraco can assume the role as starting catcher (with roughly 130 starts behind the plate) in 2014 if healthy. Barnhart, with his plus-plus defense and lefty bat, would be a natural as Mes' back-up.

    IMO it would be the best way to pump-up the offense a bit while saving a little cash to be used towards other needs (like raises for Broxton and Ludwick). I'm a big Hanigan fan, but its time to shift the catching load and look to a future where it's less tandem and more a primary catcher with the former #1 pick and top prospect getting the PT.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    mdccclxix (06-15-2013), RedlegJake (06-15-2013)

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think you are saying that Barnhart struggles against LHP and hits against RHP. I think it's time to push Barnhart to AAA and have him ready to be the back-up catcher on opening day, 2014. Ryan Hanigan will be 33 in August, his deal is coming to an end, his offense continues to decline and the pitcher to whom he is most associated with as his personal catcher will likely be leaving town as a free agent.

    Devin Mesoraco has taken a big step forward on offense and defense this year and hits LHP very well. The Reds offense needs the boost that he can provide and IMO it's time to shift the PT allocation to more of a 60-40 split (at least) in Mes' favor for the rest of 2013. Hanigan can be peddled after the season for something useful and Mesoraco can assume the role as starting catcher (with roughly 130 starts behind the plate) in 2014 if healthy. Barnhart, with his plus-plus defense and lefty bat, would be a natural as Mes' back-up.

    IMO it would be the best way to pump-up the offense a bit while saving a little cash to be used towards other needs (like raises for Broxton and Ludwick). I'm a big Hanigan fan, but its time to shift the catching load and look to a future where it's less tandem and more a primary catcher with the former #1 pick and top prospect getting the PT.
    Agree with this. Hanigan is well liked by other teams and could definitely fetch value in the trade market, especially from a team like the Rays. I'd love to see if Walt could coax a SS prospect like Hak Ju Lee or at least Tim Beckham for Hanigan. Maybe the Reds also look to buy low on OF prospect Josh Sale.

    Either way Mez should get the bulk of starts in 2014 and Barnhart should be a capable backup.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think you are saying that Barnhart struggles against LHP and hits against RHP. I think it's time to push Barnhart to AAA and have him ready to be the back-up catcher on opening day, 2014.
    I don't think there is any need to rush him. He's holding his own at AA, not scorching it. Let the kid develop on his own timeline.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Ryan Hanigan will be 33 in August, his deal is coming to an end, his offense continues to decline and the pitcher to whom he is most associated with as his personal catcher will likely be leaving town as a free agent.
    Hanigan is having a lousy season thus far, but I don't see how that can be interpreted as a continuation of anything. His OPS in 2011 and 2012 was right on his career norms. 2013 is obviously way below those norms, but it's only 126 plate appearances and he has missed significant time due to injury. Even if he sucks the rest of the year, bad seasons happen. I see nothing to indicate he cannot return to form in 2014, if not earlier.

    I'm all for giving Mesoraco more playing time, but I would rather not have him working without a net. Let Hanigan be his safety net while Devin settles in as a starter over the next couple of seasons, and let Barnhart develop at his own pace.
    Last edited by Steve4192; 06-15-2013 at 08:02 AM.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Agree with this. Hanigan is well liked by other teams and could definitely fetch value in the trade market, especially from a team like the Rays. I'd love to see if Walt could coax a SS prospect like Hak Ju Lee or at least Tim Beckham for Hanigan. Maybe the Reds also look to buy low on OF prospect Josh Sale.

    Either way Mez should get the bulk of starts in 2014 and Barnhart should be a capable backup.
    I don't think he could get anything all that valuable. If he could get a decent LOOGY (better than Manny Parra), a decent Utility IF who isn't a complete waste withe the bat (think Adam Rosales) or somebody's 10 to 15 prospect coupled with saving a couple million dollars and clearing the path for Mesoraco, I think it's time. He'll be 33/34 next season.

    As for Hanigan's offense: (in Response to Steve who makes a lot of good points on a regular basis)

    2010 .834 OPS
    2011 .714 OPS
    2012 .703 OPS
    2013 .530 OPS

    He'll be 33 in August and looking at his best seasons in the rearview mirror. If Barnhart isn't ready, low cost vets who can back-up catcher are around. Hanigan could play that role, but I think as long as he's here, Mes won't ever get full claim to the job. I'd move him and stash a low cost vet at AAA a la Dioner Navarro whie giving Barnhart first crack at the back-up job.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    RedlegJake (06-15-2013)

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    I agree with each of the last three posters. Let Tuck develop in AAA ...challenge thy hitters...his D is ready now. Then move Hanigan in the winter if TB handles AAA reasonably well. Sign a Navarro type as emergency AAA catcher - something they usually do anyway. Let Mes have the lions part of a 60/40 split next season. Hanny's numbers are trending down in a way that combined with age gives me little hope he'll have a bounceback offensively. I agree that he has trade value just not big value. But a worthwhile AA prospect or a decent reliever or decent utility player? Yeah, I think he definitely has that much just on his defensive game.

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't think he could get anything all that valuable. If he could get a decent LOOGY (better than Manny Parra), a decent Utility IF who isn't a complete waste withe the bat (think Adam Rosales) or somebody's 10 to 15 prospect coupled with saving a couple million dollars and clearing the path for Mesoraco, I think it's time. He'll be 33/34 next season.

    As for Hanigan's offense: (in Response to Steve who makes a lot of good points on a regular basis)

    2010 .834 OPS
    2011 .714 OPS
    2012 .703 OPS
    2013 .530 OPS

    He'll be 33 in August and looking at his best seasons in the rearview mirror. If Barnhart isn't ready, low cost vets who can back-up catcher are around. Hanigan could play that role, but I think as long as he's here, Mes won't ever get full claim to the job. I'd move him and stash a low cost vet at AAA a la Dioner Navarro whie giving Barnhart first crack at the back-up job.
    I'm a big fan of Barnhart's and agree that FO thinking needs to start looking toward the future beyond Hanigan. Just one point about Hanigan's stats. He obviously was seriously hurting when the season opened; he couldn't open his left side at all at the plate. It was completely unsurprising the injury was left oblique. When he came back, he hit quite well for a stretch, now has fallen way off again in the last 10 games, making one wonder if again he's having a lot of pain. So the OPS drop needs to be treated with all that in mind. On the other hand, injury and speed of recovery from injury are all age-related matters, particularly for catchers. He's now, like the rest of us, an older version of himself and that needs to be taken into account.

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't think he could get anything all that valuable. If he could get a decent LOOGY (better than Manny Parra), a decent Utility IF who isn't a complete waste withe the bat (think Adam Rosales) or somebody's 10 to 15 prospect coupled with saving a couple million dollars and clearing the path for Mesoraco, I think it's time. He'll be 33/34 next season.

    As for Hanigan's offense: (in Response to Steve who makes a lot of good points on a regular basis)

    2010 .834 OPS
    2011 .714 OPS
    2012 .703 OPS
    2013 .530 OPS

    He'll be 33 in August and looking at his best seasons in the rearview mirror. If Barnhart isn't ready, low cost vets who can back-up catcher are around. Hanigan could play that role, but I think as long as he's here, Mes won't ever get full claim to the job. I'd move him and stash a low cost vet at AAA a la Dioner Navarro whie giving Barnhart first crack at the back-up job.
    Given their professed love for him, I really think Hanigan could fetch one of Lee r Beckham. Rays have Y.Escobar, Zobrist and K.Johnson in the middle infield, with both of these prospects at AAA (although Lee is currently injured). They clearly have good depth at the position and the Reds have very little. Meanwhile after this season Hanigan could be expendable and the Rays have had their sights on him specifically for a long time.
    Go BLUE!!!

  17. #13
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Hanigan's 2013 reminds me a lot of Jason LaRue's 2006. A lot of people insisted LaRue would return to form in 2007 but he hit .195 with a .595 OPS for the rest of his career.

    I'd love for Hanigan to prove me wrong, but I think his best hitting days are behind him.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    As for Hanigan's offense: (in Response to Steve who makes a lot of good points on a regular basis)

    2010 .834 OPS
    2011 .714 OPS
    2012 .703 OPS
    2013 .530 OPS
    C'mon son.

    His 2010 season is an obvious outlier. Leaving off the rest of his career to try and mask that is lame. His 692 OPS in 2009, his major league career OPS of 712, and his minor league career OPS of 753 all make that very clear. Hanigan has been a 700ish OPS hitter ever since he arrived in the majors. His 2011 and 2012 seasons are right in line with that. You are basing your entire argument off of 126 plate appearances in 2013.



    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If Barnhart isn't ready, low cost vets who can back-up catcher are around. Hanigan could play that role, but I think as long as he's here, Mes won't ever get full claim to the job. I'd move him and stash a low cost vet at AAA a la Dioner Navarro
    That is what I suspected. Your problem is not with Hanigan, it's with Dusty. How does getting rid of Hanigan solve that problem? Whose to say Dusty won't keep that low-cost vet and play him over Mesoraco? Then the Reds have downgraded at catcher for no good reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    whie giving Barnhart first crack at the back-up job.
    I thought the big problem Mesoraco-backers had with how Dusty is doling out playing time was that a young catcher needs repetitions if he is ever going to get better. How is sitting Barnhart on the MLB bench any better? At least Mesoraco got 450+ minor league games under his belt before getting buried on the MLB bench. Barnhart hasn't even been in 300 yet. Why are you in such a hurry to have him rot away caddying for Mesoraco?

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    Re: Tucker Barnhart...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Hanigan's 2013 reminds me a lot of Jason LaRue's 2006. A lot of people insisted LaRue would return to form in 2007 but he hit .195 with a .595 OPS for the rest of his career.
    The primary difference was that Larue's 2007 was his second consecutive year of injury and reduced productivity. The other difference was that Larue was completely useless if he wasn't producing with the bat, whereas Hanigan is a defense-first catcher whose bat is just icing on the cake.


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