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Thread: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

  1. #76
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post


    I vote yes for the beard.
    Why the hell would we want Fidel Castro as our manager?
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  3. #77
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Why the hell would we want Fidel Castro as our manager?
    He is a Red.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  4. #78
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Timesaver template for each team's message board. No express written consent of MLB or me is needed.

    My opinion is that <insert your team's manager name here> is a sub-par manager but not a terrible one. I don't see anything that he does to actually make this team better. He manages precisely by the old-school book and very rarely deviates from it. He never has an original thought and has not evolved has the game as evolved since the 1970's. He is a middle-of-the-road, run-of-the-mill manager. He is never going to give the <insert your team's nickname here> an advantage over the pack. He doesn't make much of a difference one way or the other. His lack of appreciation for OBP and his fondness for wasting outs with the sacrifice far too often drive me crazy. <insert your team's manager's first name here> is fine as an "off the field" manager in terms of motivating players, giving them some rest when they struggle and keeping the bench players active. In terms of an "in-game" manager his strategy is atrocious, his handling of the starting pitchers is good, his handling of double-switches and pinch hitters is fine, and his handling of the late inning relievers is not too swift.

    I hope the <insert your team's nickname here> let <insert your team's manager's last name here> contract expire. He is making way too much money (<insert your team's manager's salary> million per year!), money that would be better spent on acquiring better players. After <insert your team's manager's first name here> leaves it would be great to get one of <insert name of another team's manager> proteges in <insert name of team for manager who thinks most like you or is most highly regarded on ESPN or mlb.com, such as former <insert your team's nickname here> player and current <insert team nickname for manager mentioned above> bench coach <insert bench coach for team mentioned above> perhaps. The <insert your team's nickname here> could use a more modern, innovative approach to the 21st century game.
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  5. #79
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    My opinion is that Dusty Baker is a sub-par manager but not a terrible one. I don't see anything that he does to actually make this team better.
    You may be right. However he may do things that you or I can't see that makes this team better. Not everything has to be seen or measured to be effective.

    He manages precisely by the old-school book and very rarely deviates from it. He never has an original thought and has not evolved has the game as evolved since the 1970's. He is a middle-of-the-road, run-of-the-mill manager. He is never going to give the Reds an advantage over the pack. He doesn't make much of a difference one way or the other. His lack of appreciation for OBP and his fondness for wasting outs with the sacrifice far too often drive me crazy.
    Those are legitimate criticisms. But there's also more than one way to skin a cat. Baseball is different than other sports where playing/managing "Old School" is a recipe for defeat. You don't see basketball teams throwing up set shots or running a Four-Corners offense. You don't see football teams run the ball quite as mush as they used to or have pure thowers play quarterback anymore. In baseball, you can employ "old School" stratigies and they work just fine. It may not be to your taste but it does work.

    Dusty is fine as an "off the field" manager in terms of motivating players, giving them some rest when they struggle and keeping the bench players active.
    Again, those are things that cannot be seen or measured.

    In terms of an "in-game" manager his strategy is atrocious, his handling of the starting pitchers is good, his handling of double-switches and pinch hitters is fine, and his handling of the late inning relievers is not too swift.
    I think he has had some bad luck with his late inning relievers. He looked like a genius last night when Chapman saved the game. He would have looked like a bum if Chapman blew the game. The players aren't robots. They have to perform. When they do, the manager looks good. When they don't, not so much.

    I hope the Reds let Baker's contract expire. He is making way too much money ($3.5 million per year!), money that would be better spent on acquiring better players.
    Who are you going to acquire for $3M (since you have to pay the new guy at least $500K) that is going to make a difference?

    After Dusty leaves it would be great to get one of Joe Maddon's proteges in Tampa Bay, such as former Reds player and current Rays bench coach Dave Martinez perhaps. The Reds could use a more modern, innovative approach to the 21st century game.
    What is this "21st Century game"? Does it have lasers and robots and droids?
    Do they play games in outer space?
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  6. #80
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    What is this "21st Century game"? Does it have lasers and robots and droids? Do they play games in outer space?
    Clearly you have not been keeping up on the latest developments.

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  7. #81
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Read the thread title as "Krusty", thought we were getting the scoop on a slobberknocker.

  8. #82
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    You may be right. However he may do things that you or I can't see that makes this team better. Not everything has to be seen or measured to be effective.



    Those are legitimate criticisms. But there's also more than one way to skin a cat. Baseball is different than other sports where playing/managing "Old School" is a recipe for defeat. You don't see basketball teams throwing up set shots or running a Four-Corners offense. You don't see football teams run the ball quite as mush as they used to or have pure thowers play quarterback anymore. In baseball, you can employ "old School" stratigies and they work just fine. It may not be to your taste but it does work.



    Again, those are things that cannot be seen or measured.



    I think he has had some bad luck with his late inning relievers. He looked like a genius last night when Chapman saved the game. He would have looked like a bum if Chapman blew the game. The players aren't robots. They have to perform. When they do, the manager looks good. When they don't, not so much.



    Who are you going to acquire for $3M (since you have to pay the new guy at least $500K) that is going to make a difference?



    What is this "21st Century game"? Does it have lasers and robots and droids?
    Do they play games in outer space?
    If you can't see how the game has changed since the 1970's then I am not surprised you are a supporter of Dusty Baker.

  9. #83
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    If you can't see how the game has changed since the 1970's then I am not surprised you are a supporter of Dusty Baker.
    How much has it really changed? Pitchers still throw off a mound and toward home plate, where the batters are still standing 60 feet, 6 inches away. They still have four balls for a walk, three strikes for an out and three outs in an inning.

    Parks have gotten smaller, in some cases. Players have gotten bigger in others. But the game itself really isn't terribly different.

    How we measure the game has changed, but the game itself is much the same.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #84
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    The last decade and a half was more like the 50's than the 70's, we've lost astroturf and multi-use stadiums, but it's still baseball.

    Drop a body into a ballpark in 1924 and the game will look very familiar, do that to a fan of any other major sport and you couldn't even begin to say the same thing.

  11. #85
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    If you can't see how the game has changed since the 1970's then I am not surprised you are a supporter of Dusty Baker.
    You mean like Earl Weaver's pitching, defense and 3 run HRs?
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  12. #86
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Teams do a lot of things they did not do in the 20th century and have also learned to not do some things that used to be considered smart. Obviously there is much more information to process and much more technology involved in strategy and preparation than there was then, that is the point I was making.

    Statistical analysis has gone a long way towards actually proving which strategies work better than others. Dusty still uses the old strategies that have been shown to be less wise (such as sacrifice bunting, valuing speed over OBP, batter vs pitcher histories, etc -- all of which Dusty still espouses). Managing a team nowadays requires a lot more time and effort than it did in the 70's. You simply cannot manage a team now the same way the game was managed when Dusty began his career. If you do your team will not reach its full potential. In my opinion the Reds are way behind the bell curve in terms of understanding and utilizing the latest techniques and strategies. They certainly are not doing anything innovative. They are trying to play catch up rather than leading the way. That is not all Dusty's fault, but I don't see him doing anything that blazes new trails.

    I am not one of the folks saying that Dusty is a terrible manager, nor am I one of his apologists. Believe it or not it is truly possible for one person to say both good and bad things about Dusty Baker. Unfortunately no matter what you say you are going to get attacked by one camp or the other. I think Dusty Baker is an average manager. He has strengths and weaknesses. I just don't think average is good enough. I want an excellent manager.

  13. #87
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    How much has it really changed? Pitchers still throw off a mound and toward home plate, where the batters are still standing 60 feet, 6 inches away. They still have four balls for a walk, three strikes for an out and three outs in an inning.

    Parks have gotten smaller, in some cases. Players have gotten bigger in others. But the game itself really isn't terribly different.

    How we measure the game has changed, but the game itself is much the same.
    Posted this in the other Dusty thread but it applies here too.


    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Have you not noticed that players are a lot bigger (due to workout regimens not steroids), pitchers throw much harder, pitchers throw a wider variety of pitches, defensive shifting used much more, players studying video so everyone's weaknesses are exposed, statistical analysis has lead to huge changes in philosophy and strategy, improved surgical techniques and physical therapy keep the best players on the field and in peak condition, money rules the game now with payrolls averaging $100 million, ballparks are smaller and actually have real grass, interleague play, the cut fastball rules the game now, Latin players compose almost 50% of the league now, PitchFx, sabermetrics, the Wild Card has been added and the playoffs have expanded, instant replay has been added?

    That is a long list of huge changes that I thought of in about a minute and I am sure I left out a bunch of things. No, the game is completely different now than it was when Dusty played beside Hank Aaron in the 1970's. The game has changed a lot since those days. Watch some Big Red Machine games and notice how small the players are -- even the sluggers. You simply can't manage the same way they did back in a bygone era and expect to succeed.

  14. #88
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Heard from Dusty tonight on the Marty pre-game interview and he mentioned that "you hate to start talking about trading guys but a lot of guys have had opportunities to win a job by now." It was in regards to helping the offense.

    I'll file that under, I like what I'm hearing from Dusty.

  15. #89
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Heard from Dusty tonight on the Marty pre-game interview and he mentioned that "you hate to start talking about trading guys but a lot of guys have had opportunities to win a job by now."

    I'll file that under, I like what I'm hearing from Dusty.
    I'll file that under "Dusty is feeling the heat."

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I'll file that under "Dusty is feeling the heat."
    No doubt, the title manager implies that you are controlling the path.

    If the path gets astray then you need to "manage" it.

    Essentially the comment implies that those players haven't performed as planned (cue the Jocketty part of this) and it might be time to explore options outside of the plan


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