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Thread: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

  1. #61
    Member OesterPoster's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Crazy idea that popped into my head: Keep the lineup the same, except flip BP and Cozart. BP leading off, Cozart hitting cleanup. Crazy enough to work?
    I'd rather see Hannigan hit cleanup with BP leading off, Stubbs second, and move Cozart down to the 8 spot.

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  3. #62
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    It IS overstating things when that's NOT what he says. He doesn't tell his players to "just swing fellas!". He wants them to be aggressive at the plate. What's wrong with that? He wants them to be aggressive on balls in the strike zone. On balls you can drive. He doesn't want his guys to be passive or to work the count just for the sake of working the count. Quite often, the best pitch to hit that you see in an at bat is the first pitch. Just because the players aren't executing doesn't mean that the idea isn't sound. In the case of Stubbs, he's extremely passive during his AB's. He takes strikes right down the middle of the plate because he thinks that's what a hitter at the top of the lineup is supposed to do...see pitches. What SHOULD Dusty tell him in that situation? Keep working the count Drew...you'll draw a walk eventually. No, be aggressive during your ab's. If you see a pitch you can drive, take a freaking whack at it. I know we have a bunch of guys who strikeout a lot, but it's not due to Dusty's hitting philosophy...it's due to us having a bunch of low-contact types of hitters. Just my opinion.

    I kind of question this process though. Why does a manager have more input on hitting than the hitting coach? It seems kind of flawed that a manager would have that much impact as to how hitters should hit. Isn't that's what a hitting coach is for?
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  4. #63
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Crazy idea that popped into my head: Keep the lineup the same, except flip BP and Cozart. BP leading off, Cozart hitting cleanup. Crazy enough to work?
    If the Reds were able to get a guy like Quintin to hit 4th moving BP to leadoff I think that would greatly improve this club. As it is not they have one guy who has done a decent job out of the leadoff spot being forced to hit 4th. They have a catcher who plays 60% of the time being suggested to hit leadoff by many. If you watched last nights game you saw the reason why Dusty likes to break up the left handed hitters. The Brewers brought in a lefty specalists to get out Votto but was forced to keep him in the game to face lefty killer BP becase Bruce was hitting 5th.

    I think Dusty does a decent job with the deck he has been dealt. No manager in baseball is going to hit Hanigan 1st or 2nd. They don't have a leadoff hitter, don't really have a cleanup hitter, don't have much of a bench, but some how Dusty has them in 1st place right now. Not a bad job if you ask me. I guess that makes me a Dusty apologist, but I would rather be that than a Dusty hater.

  5. #64
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I kind of question this process though. Why does a manager have more input on hitting than the hitting coach? It seems kind of flawed that a manager would have that much impact as to how hitters should hit. Isn't that's what a hitting coach is for?
    Again, we're assuming that he has more input. All we hear are the press tidbits. And Jacoby doesn't talk to the press. I would guess that Dusty sits down with his coaches during the off season and they agree on what they want the team to accomplish and how to reach that goal. I'm sure Dusty pulls a player aside every now and then and gives them a pointer or two. I bet he does the same with his pitchers. But the day in and day out stuff, I'm pretty sure he leaves to the respective coaches.

    I like the fact that Dusty basically filters everything for the press. He takes the hits for his players and coaches quite often. He's certainly got his flaws, but that's not one of them IMO.
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    You don't think it's odd to have the vast majority of posts on a Reds message board being basically griping and moaning, complaining about this and that, when the team in question is in first place? It seems that there's no pleasing some people.

    And I'm not apologizing for Dusty. He can drive me nuts with lots of things, but any manager is going to do that to some extent. I'm simply saying that what he says to the press is not necessarily what he's saying to his team. And even then, the fans take what he says to the press and twist it to suit their current Dusty-rant. We get it, you don't like Dusty. Lots of people don't. So why is it that his players never say a bad thing about the guy? Ex-players too?
    I don't read all the posts, just the one's that I have some interest in, so I guess I don't notice it. I did notice the same thing on the Indiana University basketball forum though this past season. High expectations lead to disappointment sometimes and I think last season's results and losing games this year that it seemed like the Reds should win probably grinds on fans. Also, I think sometimes posters come to the forum to vent their frustrations more often than they do talk about how great everything is. IMHO

    As to players complaining, while I respect what they think and how they feel about a manager, it's really about finding a manager than can make a difference in the win/loss column regardless of who the players want to be their manager. IU players wanted Mike Davis to be their coach and they all loved him...after the first season at IU he was basically proved to be out of his league at an elite school like IU. Not saying these people are comparable, just saying the players aren't the best resource for these types of decisions.

    Bum

  7. #66
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    Really? Here are his career Reds #'s: .262/.328/.439/.768

    Not only will he never make the HOF but even if at one time he was worthy of it being said that he was competing at that level, he certainly hasn't competed anywhere near that level with the Reds, nor will he. To expect him to change at this point in his career or to expect him to even maintain the above is a bit on the nutty side. The real question, and maybe we should set up a bet, is what is the over/under on the number of games till his next injury? Hey window, I'm just going to throw $25M right out of you if you don't mind! That being said, Dusty would do well to play him once a series to try to lengthen his time on the active roster cause at least he keeps Willie Harris from being on the roster...plus, I think Rolen probably is as good a coach/manager as we have on the bench; with him on the DL, we tend to lose that.

    Bum
    To say Rolen is not a HOF candidate is just plain silly.

    Here's a quote from an article about the quality of 3b last year:
    Perhaps we should rethink the defensive spectrum! Perhaps third base is the hardest position! Last year, third baseman had a .707 OPS — worsted only by catchers… and still shortstops. But the .252/.317/.390 collective batting line at the hot corner was just barely better than the shortstops with their .263/.317/.380 ways.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...gs-third-base/

    The article illustrates the lack of quality 3b. Rolen's line you posted is actually above average, even with his injuries. When you factor in his defense, he's above average.

    Again, there's not a manager in ML baseball that would've benched Rolen after his DL stint. He's earned a chance to keep his job after healing from an injury. So far, so good. Dusty is doing a good job giving Frazier playing time as well. No one is suffering unjustly by Rolen playing.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  8. #67
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    LOL TLR benched and criticized Rolen due to injury issues.

    Still, I think allowing Ron Santo into the HOF makes Rolen's case certainly easier. I don't think he's a first ballot but 20 years down the road, who knows.
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  9. #68
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    I think it is also unfair to assume that I am blaming everything on him as well. I just don't think he is the right manager for this team. Clearly I think the players are underachieving and that is as much on them as it is on him.
    Strongly disagree here.
    If we had a drill sargent/Ron Oester type manager yelling at the players to motivate them, do you think Phillips and Votto would've signed extensions? Not likely.

    If you think the team is underachieving, how many games do think they could've won with more motivation? The Reds have been involved in a lot of 1 run games so far this year. I can't quickly find the record for team in one run games, but I think it's about .500 (maybe slightly less).. It would've been nice to win more of those, but the fact is that we play a lot of teams close.

    It's time to remember that this is not a computer game.. It's a lot more difficult to win games in real life. Also, there's a human side to managing which Dusty seems to excell at.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #69
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Crazy idea that popped into my head: Keep the lineup the same, except flip BP and Cozart. BP leading off, Cozart hitting cleanup. Crazy enough to work?
    When BP was slumping many were crying because he wasn't "protecting" Votto. Now he is "protecting" Joey and some want him moved out of the 4 hole because "no one" is on base for him?

    Not picking on you, as this has been brought up more than once.

  11. #70
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Strongly disagree here.
    If we had a drill sargent/Ron Oester type manager yelling at the players to motivate them, do you think Phillips and Votto would've signed extensions? Not likely.

    If you think the team is underachieving, how many games do think they could've won with more motivation? The Reds have been involved in a lot of 1 run games so far this year. I can't quickly find the record for team in one run games, but I think it's about .500 (maybe slightly less).. It would've been nice to win more of those, but the fact is that we play a lot of teams close.

    It's time to remember that this is not a computer game.. It's a lot more difficult to win games in real life. Also, there's a human side to managing which Dusty seems to excell at.

    Wait... this isn't MLB The Show? No wonder why nobody has 70 hr's at this point...
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

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  12. #71
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfeet View Post
    Yea, Walt's done nothing at all to try and put a good product on the field.
    Meh.

    I have mixed feelings about Walt.

    If it's a long term plan to be competitive, then he's pulling the right strings. But I don't feel like he's pulled that final string that wins a world series title. Still 2 or 3 gaping holes that have been there for 2 or 3 years now and not addressed.

    Sure, signing Bruce, Cueto, Votto, Phillips, etc. have solidified the core. But not fixing LF, and counting on an oft-injured Rolen, a hole at 3B, no legit cleanup hitter, and low OBP guys at the top of the order, has been a problem. Even CF is a problem for me.

    I'll cut him slack on Madson and Masset. No way anyone saw that coming. This bullpen might be even better than it already is had they not gotten injured. Which might have put Chapman in the starting rotation now or eventually, which would have allowed possibly to trade Leake or Bailey for those hole I talked about.
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  13. #72
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    I'm a results-based guy as well. And here is what impresses me with Dusty.

    The manager of the Chicago Cubs during their most successful season(s) in over 100 years? Dusty Baker.

    The manager of the San Francisco Giants during their most successful seasons in team (SF) history prior to 2010? Dusty Baker.

    The manager of the Reds during their first post season since 1995? Dusty Baker.

    Maybe Dusty just has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. Maybe he's just lucky and maybe he was a reason those teams didn't succeed more than they did. But the more likely answer is that there IS a connection and that whatever it is that Dusty does, kind of seems to work

  14. #73
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Here's something that I think a lot of folks may not recall, but I do all too well, which is one reason that I give my overall support to Dusty Baker.

    I learned baseball from the BRM. Sure, it raised the bar of my expectations forever, but I think that I'm mature enough in my view of the game and of being a Reds fan that I realize that assembling that amount of offensive and defensive talent is not a realistic expectation for any franchise, even those with seemingly unlimited financial resources.

    However, it was not just the talent, but the work ethic and discipline of the Reds that also became an expectation. During the dark days of 2001-2008, the Reds became a lackadaisical organization. They did not seem all that interested in doing whatever it took to become a top organization. They just showed up for the ballgames, tried to field an entertaining team, then hoped we had a good time at the ballpark, win or lose.

    There seemed to be more emphasis on personalities and seeing home runs than fielding a team that played good baseball. Wasn't that a fun comeback, down 7-0 after two? Whew, what a game, 9-8, walkoff homer for the win. Night after night after night. Except sometimes the offense didn't have a comeback in them and they'd lose ugly after another Todd Van Poppel outing. There were also discussions of players feeling no pressure, just a nice place to play and raise a family. Working on my game? Yea, I took some extra BP. We'll come back and get 'em tomorrow.

    What? This is not an attitude befitting the Cincinnati Reds I know!

    Krivsky arrived and started the process of organization change and attitude, I think he deserves a heckuva lot of credit for immediately upgrading this organization from top to bottom. Castellini arrived and he had a BRM pedigree and brought some others with him (the Williams brothers) who were likely as sickened as a lot of us were at what had happened to the organization. And then he hired a real manager, which was Dusty. Remember he followed the disasters of Boone, Miley, Narron, who really just were not expected by anyone to succeed, and they didn't.

    Sure, Dusty has his flaws, but he brought a similar passion to the game that the ownership group does, that Jocketty does. Finally, there are folks that clearly understand what a first class organization looks like from top to bottom. These are folks with a track record in the game, not some wannabes that are in this on the cheap so we can root, root, root for the home team. They are instilling the expectation of winning ballgames in Cincinnati. World class players are signing on to play for the Reds, some enlisting for their entire careers. Players are excited to be drafted by the Cincinnati Reds.

    And Dusty Baker is a part of that reformation and revitalization of baseball in Cincinnati, one my own kids are now proud to root for. One I am proud again to root for. This time I appreciate it so much more because I've seen the other side, and it ain't pretty.
    Last edited by traderumor; 06-26-2012 at 05:08 PM.
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  15. #74
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    My opinion is that Dusty Baker is a sub-par manager but not a terrible one. I don't see anything that he does to actually make this team better. He manages precisely by the old-school book and very rarely deviates from it. He never has an original thought and has not evolved has the game as evolved since the 1970's. He is a middle-of-the-road, run-of-the-mill manager. He is never going to give the Reds an advantage over the pack. He doesn't make much of a difference one way or the other. His lack of appreciation for OBP and his fondness for wasting outs with the sacrifice far too often drive me crazy. Dusty is fine as an "off the field" manager in terms of motivating players, giving them some rest when they struggle and keeping the bench players active. In terms of an "in-game" manager his strategy is atrocious, his handling of the starting pitchers is good, his handling of double-switches and pinch hitters is fine, and his handling of the late inning relievers is not too swift.

    I hope the Reds let Baker's contract expire. He is making way too much money ($3.5 million per year!), money that would be better spent on acquiring better players. After Dusty leaves it would be great to get one of Joe Maddon's proteges in Tampa Bay, such as former Reds player and current Rays bench coach Dave Martinez perhaps. The Reds could use a more modern, innovative approach to the 21st century game.

  16. #75
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    After Dusty leaves it would be great to get one of Joe Maddon's proteges in Tampa Bay, such as former Reds player and current Rays bench coach Dave Martinez perhaps. The Reds could use a more modern, innovative approach to the 21st century game.


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