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Thread: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

  1. #31
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Why is Hanigan at leadoff not realistic?
    Not many managers bat catchers leadoff. They are slow, they don't play everyday, they get beat up as it is, those are some of the reasons it's not realistic. In Hanigan's case, he may find less playing time in the near future. I happen to find the concept interesting, but it doesn't bring me to revolt against Dusty at all. Hanigan is performing effectively as the 8th hitter that helps turn the lineup over, etc.

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  3. #32
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    How is it not realistic? He has the (I believe) 2nd best on base on the team behind Votto. Why would you not want him on base for the best hitter in baseball?
    He'd clog the bases? Can't have him getting on there and then have the number 2 hitter not know what to do with a guy on base can we?

  4. #33
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    He'd clog the bases? Can't have him getting on there and then have Cozart have the number 2 hitter not know what to do with a guy on base can we?
    That truly is what Dusty thinks isn't it? Thanks for adding that. Dusty doesn't just NOT want high OBP at the top of the lineup, he actually does not like OBP and he's never said it's a good thing.

  5. #34
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Dusty hates to lose and loves to win. He's into every single game and loves the Reds.

    Go Dusty! Kick some azz!


  6. #35
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty



    Seems like I've been reading this same thread all year long. And to think, this thread actually started out positively!

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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    That's kind of a silly criticism. How can a manager will a player to do better? I've witnessed the best manager I have ever seen manage on the field in TLR all those years and even he had a hard time "willing" or motivating players to do better. What he did do is put pressure on them to compete hard all 9 innings. That's about as much as a manager can really do with their players. From what I'm seeing from a far, Baker seems to be pushing players to play a hard 9. Secondly, who's expectations are they trying to match? Realistic expectations or expectations from fans based on hype? You may think that they have a certain level of talent but reality might be completely different. Take Stubbs for example. Ever since I have been in this forum, the poster here love this guy's upside. However, what if he is what he is? What if his ceiling is actually a guy with a ton of speed but will strike out 9000 times per year? You can't will a player to be better than he actually is.
    So, a manager's job is just to turn in a lineup card and be a strategist? 2 things Dusty is terrible at...if that were the case and he wasn't supposed to provide motivation then why not pay me $200K and save some money for a cleanup or leadoff hitter? Hell, why not just give you the job? I have watched more than one under-talented St Louis team not only crush the Reds repeatedly but win World Series they had no business even being in under LaRussa.

    As to just being a fan and meeting my expectations? If you are satisfied with a losing record from the Reds last season and then struggling to stay ahead of a very thin Pirates team with little pitching and a Cardinals team that can barely field a team and has their ace (arse) on the DL this year, then I don't know what to tell you. The Cardinals and Pirates managers are doing something you said a manager can't do, they are making their players play better.

    Carry on.

    Bum

  8. #37
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Dusty hates to lose and loves to win. He's into every single game and loves the Reds.

    Go Dusty! Kick some azz!

    Introduce Dusty to the highest bidder and he will love them too...

  9. #38
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    So, a manager's job is just to turn in a lineup card and be a strategist? 2 things Dusty is terrible at...if that were the case and he wasn't supposed to provide motivation then why not pay me $200K and save some money for a cleanup or leadoff hitter? Hell, why not just give you the job? I have watched more than one under-talented St Louis team not only crush the Reds repeatedly but win World Series they had no business even being in under LaRussa.

    As to just being a fan and meeting my expectations? If you are satisfied with a losing record from the Reds last season and then struggling to stay ahead of a very thin Pirates team with little pitching and a Cardinals team that can barely field a team and has their ace (arse) on the DL this year, then I don't know what to tell you. The Cardinals and Pirates managers are doing something you said a manager can't do, they are making their players play better.

    Carry on.

    Bum
    The Pirates have good pitching, although many of their players are rather thin. The Cards have a really great roster, if you take a look. Offense and pitching in spades. They're well below where they "should" be, as were some of Larussa's most talented teams. I predict they make a charge for the division, but we'll need Dusty and Co, and all good fans, to hold them off! Go Reds!

  10. #39
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    Introduce Dusty to the highest bidder and he will love them too...
    That's true for just about everybody in baseball, it don't stop the love!

  11. #40
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    So, a manager's job is just to turn in a lineup card and be a strategist? 2 things Dusty is terrible at...if that were the case and he wasn't supposed to provide motivation then why not pay me $200K and save some money for a cleanup or leadoff hitter? Hell, why not just give you the job? I have watched more than one under-talented St Louis team not only crush the Reds repeatedly but win World Series they had no business even being in under LaRussa.

    As to just being a fan and meeting my expectations? If you are satisfied with a losing record from the Reds last season and then struggling to stay ahead of a very thin Pirates team with little pitching and a Cardinals team that can barely field a team and has their ace (arse) on the DL this year, then I don't know what to tell you. The Cardinals and Pirates managers are doing something you said a manager can't do, they are making their players play better.

    Carry on.

    Bum
    I didn't say a manager's job was not to motivate. The point I was making is managers can't motivate a player to play better than he truely is. Getting players to play a "hard 9" is motivation and it's something I see Dusty doing. I don't get a sense that players on the Reds are "mailing it in". However, Dusty cannot motivate Stubbs to strike out less than 100 times per year. Willing a player to better than his current talent level is impossible.

    The Cardinals winning World Series had nothing to do with players playing better than what their capable of. What TLR and Duccan, for that matter, did all those years is put players in positions to win with the strengths they have. Duncan was masterful at this. When he would get a "washed up pitcher", Duncan would teach or lean him towards using pitches that are still strengths instead of using pitches that the pitcher thinks he's still can be successful with. It sounds simple but not a lot of managers do this. None of this had to do with making players better. It had to do with figuring out what players do well with and getting those players to highlight those things. It shouldn't be overlooked also that TLR had a lot of talented players. The 04 team with Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds was a team that won a ton of games because players played to their ability, which was on the elite level. The 06 team that won it all had a horrible regular season but the talent level was still elite on that team.
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  12. #41
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I didn't say a manager's job was not to motivate. The point I was making is managers can't motivate a player to play better than he truely is. Getting players to play a "hard 9" is motivation and it's something I see Dusty doing. I don't get a sense that players on the Reds are "mailing it in". However, Dusty cannot motivate Stubbs to strike out less than 100 times per year. Willing a player to better than his current talent level is impossible.

    The Cardinals winning World Series had nothing to do with players playing better than what their capable of. What TLR and Duccan, for that matter, did all those years is put players in positions to win with the strengths they have. Duncan was masterful at this. When he would get a "washed up pitcher", Duncan would teach or lean him towards using pitches that are still strengths instead of using pitches that the pitcher thinks he's still can be successful with. It sounds simple but not a lot of managers do this. None of this had to do with making players better. It had to do with figuring out what players do well with and getting those players to highlight those things. It shouldn't be overlooked also that TLR had a lot of talented players. The 04 team with Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds was a team that won a ton of games because players played to their ability, which was on the elite level. The 06 team that won it all had a horrible regular season but the talent level was still elite on that team.
    I never mentioned playing above one's talent level. I mentioned motivating players to play better and give all they have. Maybe, talking to Stubbs about his approach at the plate would change the 150K's per year, instead of the "swing the damn bat" mentality that Dusty has. Last year's STL had no business being in the playoffs let alone the world series. The Reds had no business not being in the playoffs. I guess y'all are satisfied with the underachievement which is certainly your prerogative.

    Bum

  13. #42
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Dusty is playing Ludwick/Rolen over Frazier and batting Cozart/Stubbs at the top of the lineup instead of Hanigan. He's still a bad manager.
    Last 28 days, Ludwick is OPSing 894. He got off to a slow start, but he's not been a problem.

    Rolen is a legitimate HOF player who played a huge role on this team until he got hurt, and has been playing well since coming off the DL. There's not a manager in baseball who would've benched Rolen when he came off the DL for a guy like Frasier.

    Since Rolen has come off the DL, he's started 6 games and pinch hit in one.
    In the same time span, Frazier has started 5 games and pinch hit in one.
    Frazier is still getting plenty of playing time.

    Stubbs has been thriving in the #2 slot, can't see how you can complain about that.

    Cozart is not the optimal leadoff guy, but he's on pace to score 92 runs. That's not too shabby.
    I'd rather have Phillips leadoff, but we need him in the middle of the lineup now.
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  14. #43
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    How is it not realistic? He has the (I believe) 2nd best on base on the team behind Votto. Why would you not want him on base for the best hitter in baseball?
    Because there's more to it than OBP. Hannigan has no power or speed.
    Thus it's more difficult to get him into scoring position.

    Plus, his OBP would likely drop when elevated to the #2 slot.
    Hannigan gets a lot of walks in the #8 slot, since he makes good contact.
    Without the pitcher batting behind him, his walks will probably drop.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #44
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Because there's more to it than OBP. Hannigan has no power or speed.
    Thus it's more difficult to get him into scoring position.

    Plus, his OBP would likely drop when elevated to the #2 slot.
    Hannigan gets a lot of walks in the #8 slot, since he makes good contact.
    Without the pitcher batting behind him, his walks will probably drop.
    I think this impact is underestimated when folks start recommending him for #2. However, I think his punch and judy style might turn some walks into singles, so same difference. It still leaves us without a leadoff hitter, Cozart is driving me batty.
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  16. #45
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Last 28 days, Ludwick is OPSing 894. He got off to a slow start, but he's not been a problem.

    Rolen is a legitimate HOF player who played a huge role on this team until he got hurt, and has been playing well since coming off the DL. There's not a manager in baseball who would've benched Rolen when he came off the DL for a guy like Frasier.

    Since Rolen has come off the DL, he's started 6 games and pinch hit in one.
    In the same time span, Frazier has started 5 games and pinch hit in one.
    Frazier is still getting plenty of playing time.

    Stubbs has been thriving in the #2 slot, can't see how you can complain about that.

    Cozart is not the optimal leadoff guy, but he's on pace to score 92 runs. That's not too shabby.
    I'd rather have Phillips leadoff, but we need him in the middle of the lineup now.
    Really? Here are his career Reds #'s: .262/.328/.439/.768

    Not only will he never make the HOF but even if at one time he was worthy of it being said that he was competing at that level, he certainly hasn't competed anywhere near that level with the Reds, nor will he. To expect him to change at this point in his career or to expect him to even maintain the above is a bit on the nutty side. The real question, and maybe we should set up a bet, is what is the over/under on the number of games till his next injury? Hey window, I'm just going to throw $25M right out of you if you don't mind! That being said, Dusty would do well to play him once a series to try to lengthen his time on the active roster cause at least he keeps Willie Harris from being on the roster...plus, I think Rolen probably is as good a coach/manager as we have on the bench; with him on the DL, we tend to lose that.

    Bum


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