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Thread: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

  1. #46
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Why is Hanigan at leadoff not realistic?
    Is Ryan Hanigan basically a slower version of Jason Kendall?

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  3. #47
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Hanigan is too slow to leadoff realistically, plus he doesn't play everyday, he actually would "clog" the bases ahead of Stubbs, he has no power, and Stubbs does fine in the 2 hole if you really care to look at his numbers there although his strikeouts do drive a person batty, so Hanigan is best left where he is. Dusty simply has no one besides BP to leadoff. I am a proponent of Bruce in the four spot, damn the lefties, and let BP leadoff until they can find a better cleanup hitter. Frazier or Rolen hitting fifth after Bruce makes more sense to me than either hitting fourth and BP was a decent leadoff hitter, miles better than Cozart. Stubbs was better than Cozart strikeouts and all but BP first Stubbs second Votto third Bruce clean up Frazier/Lud/Heisey fifth Rolen/Frazier sixth Cozart seventh and Hanigan/Navarro eighth (Mes to AAA for awhile to get his stroke and confidence as a hitter back).

    As to the original topic I like Dusty most of the time although sometimes he does drive me nuts. Usually when dealing with Chapman.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 06-26-2012 at 02:17 PM.

  4. #48
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    I don't care if he's a slow guy hitting in front of Stubbs. Get as many people on base for Votto as possible.

    You could always hit Stubbs leadoff and Hanigan second but according to redszone 2nd is the only place Stubbs can hit and not suck.
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  5. #49
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    I never mentioned playing above one's talent level. I mentioned motivating players to play better and give all they have. Maybe, talking to Stubbs about his approach at the plate would change the 150K's per year, instead of the "swing the damn bat" mentality that Dusty has. Last year's STL had no business being in the playoffs let alone the world series. The Reds had no business not being in the playoffs. I guess y'all are satisfied with the underachievement which is certainly your prerogative.
    The first part of that statement would indicate that you're asking players to play above one's talent level. Do you know for a fact that the players right now aren't giving it their all? That's kind of insulting to the Reds to accuse players of not giving it their all when you're not in the club house. I never get the sense that the Reds clubhouse is equivalent to the 2011 Boston Red Sox club house.

    To assume that because a player is struggle indicates he isn't giving it his all is just flawed. Baseball is a sport based on failure in which even the elite players fail 70% of the time. To think that every player on the team can succeed all the time is just unrealistic. In the famous words of Ron Washington "That how baseball go".

    No, I'm not satisfied that teams underachieve. Your putting words in my mouth considering that I expect the Cards to play to the level that won the World Series the year before. In no way am I glad the Cardinals played horrible in May. That said, I never once questioned that they're giving it their all. That was never an issue in my mind.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

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  6. #50
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    The first part of that statement would indicate that you're asking players to play above one's talent level. Do you know for a fact that the players right now aren't giving it their all? That's kind of insulting to the Reds to accuse players of not giving it their all when you're not in the club house. I never get the sense that the Reds clubhouse is equivalent to the 2011 Boston Red Sox club house.

    To assume that because a player is struggle indicates he isn't giving it his all is just flawed. Baseball is a sport based on failure in which even the elite players fail 70% of the time. To think that every player on the team can succeed all the time is just unrealistic. In the famous words of Ron Washington "That how baseball go".

    No, I'm not satisfied that teams underachieve. Your putting words in my mouth considering that I expect the Cards to play to the level that won the World Series the year before. In no way am I glad the Cardinals played horrible in May. That said, I never once questioned that they're giving it their all. That was never an issue in my mind.
    Ah...you are the Cardinals fan...no wonder you like Dusty!

    I will save my debate for Reds fans. If I am putting words in your mouth, then you are most certainly putting words into mine. I don't like Dusty and I have my reasons. You are a Cardinals fan and like Dusty, and I understand that! J/K.

  7. #51
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    He's managing to stay in front. Right now his tone is urgent and results minded. I think he could be pressing right at the right time, asking his team to fight hard through this key stretch. He's got a team full of players in their prime, driving them hard is the right thing to do heading into the ASG. Take the Milwaukee series and bring the fight to the west coast. We'll see what happens, but I like what I'm hearing from Dusty. Go Reds.
    I agree.

    Unfortunately, this thread turning negative was pretty predictable I'm sorry to say. It's kinda sad. This place has gotten pretty depressing this season especially considering where we are. I simply don't understand the negativity.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  8. #52
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    Ah...you are the Cardinals fan...no wonder you like Dusty!

    I will save my debate for Reds fans. If I am putting words in your mouth, then you are most certainly putting words into mine. I don't like Dusty and I have my reasons. You are a Cardinals fan and like Dusty, and I understand that! J/K.
    Read my first post. I was never a fan of Dusty Baker. I just feel that it's unfair to blame everything on him.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

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  9. #53
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I agree.

    Unfortunately, this thread turning negative was pretty predictable I'm sorry to say. It's kinda sad. This place has gotten pretty depressing this season especially considering where we are. I simply don't understand the negativity.
    You have to feel sorry for Baker, he's been here 4-5 years and never had a leadoff guy. He's tried making wine from water, but it's seldom worked. And you can't bat Phillips 1st and 4th in the same game, unfortunately.

    Where I thought he was probably too patient with last year's team in the summer months, I think he's learned he needs to keep the foot on the peddle with this team. He's also got better players through acquisition and development. This is team he knows can win, I hope Walt is still stirring for another player or two.

  10. #54
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Read my first post. I was never a fan of Dusty Baker. I just feel that it's unfair to blame everything on him.
    I think it is also unfair to assume that I am blaming everything on him as well. I just don't think he is the right manager for this team. Clearly I think the players are underachieving and that is as much on them as it is on him. However, it's easier to find a manager to motivate them than it is to find new players. Not that I think the Reds should fire him during the season, they just shouldn't extend him IMHO. I also don't think Dusty puts players in the best position to succeed as he likes to say that he does; I also don't think he puts his best lineup out there as often as he should, but alas, I imagine these are all things we disagree about. I'm sure it gets old hearing about it over and over, but then again it gets old seeing Dusty do the same thing over and over as well.

    Bum

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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I agree.

    Unfortunately, this thread turning negative was pretty predictable I'm sorry to say. It's kinda sad. This place has gotten pretty depressing this season especially considering where we are. I simply don't understand the negativity.
    Also predictable was the cry for flowers and puppy dogs from the Dusty apologists...

  12. #56
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Crazy idea that popped into my head: Keep the lineup the same, except flip BP and Cozart. BP leading off, Cozart hitting cleanup. Crazy enough to work?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  13. #57
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    It's consistent with his "theory" on hitting and consistent with the fact that we only have a couple or 3 players with reasonable patience at the plate. "Just swing fellas!" It's not "tired" when it fits the bill.

    All his talk doesn't win games or set any tone. His job is to motivate these players to produce. They are under-performing for about a year and a half now. Sorry, I see no reason to be happy about that. Of course it was predictable when Dusty was hired but you don't want to hear that now do you?

    Bum
    It IS overstating things when that's NOT what he says. He doesn't tell his players to "just swing fellas!". He wants them to be aggressive at the plate. What's wrong with that? He wants them to be aggressive on balls in the strike zone. On balls you can drive. He doesn't want his guys to be passive or to work the count just for the sake of working the count. Quite often, the best pitch to hit that you see in an at bat is the first pitch. Just because the players aren't executing doesn't mean that the idea isn't sound. In the case of Stubbs, he's extremely passive during his AB's. He takes strikes right down the middle of the plate because he thinks that's what a hitter at the top of the lineup is supposed to do...see pitches. What SHOULD Dusty tell him in that situation? Keep working the count Drew...you'll draw a walk eventually. No, be aggressive during your ab's. If you see a pitch you can drive, take a freaking whack at it. I know we have a bunch of guys who strikeout a lot, but it's not due to Dusty's hitting philosophy...it's due to us having a bunch of low-contact types of hitters. Just my opinion.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  14. #58
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    I think it is also unfair to assume that I am blaming everything on him as well. I just don't think he is the right manager for this team. Clearly I think the players are underachieving and that is as much on them as it is on him. However, it's easier to find a manager to motivate them than it is to find new players. Not that I think the Reds should fire him during the season, they just shouldn't extend him IMHO. I also don't think Dusty puts players in the best position to succeed as he likes to say that he does; I also don't think he puts his best lineup out there as often as he should, but alas, I imagine these are all things we disagree about. I'm sure it gets old hearing about it over and over, but then again it gets old seeing Dusty do the same thing over and over as well.

    Bum

    Regardless of who you hire, people aren't going to be happy. I saw it all the time with TLR. He would have 130 some odd lineups every year and people wanted him fired for it. When batting the pitcher 8th and trying to think outside the box to score runs, people would literally have heart attacks over it in St. Louis. The manager is a no win job. I think on a whole, the Reds could do far worse than Dusty Baker. I actually think the Reds would regret letting go of Baker unless Francona is a guarantee to be Reds manager. The managerial talent out there is simply bare.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

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  15. #59
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    Also predictable was the cry for flowers and puppy dogs from the Dusty apologists...
    You don't think it's odd to have the vast majority of posts on a Reds message board being basically griping and moaning, complaining about this and that, when the team in question is in first place? It seems that there's no pleasing some people.

    And I'm not apologizing for Dusty. He can drive me nuts with lots of things, but any manager is going to do that to some extent. I'm simply saying that what he says to the press is not necessarily what he's saying to his team. And even then, the fans take what he says to the press and twist it to suit their current Dusty-rant. We get it, you don't like Dusty. Lots of people don't. So why is it that his players never say a bad thing about the guy? Ex-players too?
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  16. #60
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: I like what I'm hearing from Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    Also predictable was the cry for flowers and puppy dogs from the Dusty apologists...
    I don't apologize for Dusty, he's done nothing wrong! Ever! That's the thing with Dusty accusers, though, they accuse him of small things, add them up, resize them to enormous proportions, and repeat them over an over. Geeze get over it. He's doing some pretty good things night in and night out, pay attention.


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