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Thread: 2013 NBA Offseason News

  1. #196
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    not really sure what that proves considering

    1. one league has a form of a salary cap and the other doesn't have any
    2. Making the MLB playoffs is harder than the NBA playoffs
    So MLB gets a pass because their rules alow one team to spend over 200 million while other teams spend less then 50 million?

    My point is that every professional sports league has a few patheticly ran franchises. It doesn't make the league pathetic. BTW there are far better examples of futility in the NBA then the Orlando Magic.

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  3. #197
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    Nuggets managed to get a pretty decent haul w/o any negotiating power in a worse spot where a player was open to exactly one team. Hornets got back way more as well with a player open to multiple places. HGH is a top 3 player in the league in his prime. Unquestionably a better asset than Melo and CP3 when their deals went through. I don't understand how a gm can't get remotely close to the value of either of those two deals. The only explanation is the magic GM was completely played in this situation.

    If this was truly the best offer they could get between now and Feb, and there's no way it was, why not just wait til the trade deadline and hope fickle dwight gets more fickle and changes his mind and wants to stay in Orlando. This deal improved the other 3 teams so much that I highly doubt if this deal was turned down now, and the Magic GM came knocking at the trade deadline that these 3 teams would say no way not interested.

    If they waited, another team between now and then may give them a much better offer than what they are getting now. Or maybe the Lakers don't like where they are at the deadline and say ok we'll give up Pau + Bynum just to make sure they get him.
    It seemed fairly obvious that the only thing Orlando wanted in return was lottery picks. But, none of the proposed deals had them in there and so they cut bait and made a deal. Could they have waited and gotten more? Maybe.

    Again, it comes down to philosophy. There are two places you want to be as a franchise in the NBA.
    1) Currently contending for a title.
    2) In line to get a title worthy player.

    Look at all of the current title contenders and you will see the same thing pushed them into contention.

    Miami: (02-03) - 25-57 - Next season: Draft Dwyane Wade
    Seattle/OKC: (06-07) - 31-51 - Next season: Draft Kevin Durant
    Chicago: (07-08) - 33-49 - Next season: Draft Derrick Rose
    San Antonio: (96-97) - 20-62 - Next Season: Draft Tim Duncan

    Now, that leaves two other teams: Boston and LA. First, those teams have been outliers for their entire franchise history. But, Boston got better by bottoming out (and having their old buddy Kevin McHale running the T'Wolves). LA got better by always getting the best player back in their major trades (Shaq/Kobe/Pau/etc...). Orlando is in the opposite position (always trading away the better player).

    What was Orlando really going to do? If they get Pau and Bynum, where does that put them in the Eastern Conference? If those two couldn't get out of the second round with Kobe, how would they do with Jameer Nelson and Hedo? That team would probably occupy the dreaded 7 or 8 seed. Darryl Morey just amnestied Luis Scola to get out of that no mans land.

    So, Orlando didn't get much back, but they now have a legit shot at getting someone like Shabazz or Jabari Parker. And, in a place like Orlando that is their only real shot at a title.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  4. #198
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    It seemed fairly obvious that the only thing Orlando wanted in return was lottery picks. But, none of the proposed deals had them in there and so they cut bait and made a deal. Could they have waited and gotten more? Maybe.

    Again, it comes down to philosophy. There are two places you want to be as a franchise in the NBA.
    1) Currently contending for a title.
    2) In line to get a title worthy player.

    Look at all of the current title contenders and you will see the same thing pushed them into contention.

    Miami: (02-03) - 25-57 - Next season: Draft Dwyane Wade
    Seattle/OKC: (06-07) - 31-51 - Next season: Draft Kevin Durant
    Chicago: (07-08) - 33-49 - Next season: Draft Derrick Rose
    San Antonio: (96-97) - 20-62 - Next Season: Draft Tim Duncan

    Now, that leaves two other teams: Boston and LA. First, those teams have been outliers for their entire franchise history. But, Boston got better by bottoming out (and having their old buddy Kevin McHale running the T'Wolves). LA got better by always getting the best player back in their major trades (Shaq/Kobe/Pau/etc...). Orlando is in the opposite position (always trading away the better player).

    What was Orlando really going to do? If they get Pau and Bynum, where does that put them in the Eastern Conference? If those two couldn't get out of the second round with Kobe, how would they do with Jameer Nelson and Hedo? That team would probably occupy the dreaded 7 or 8 seed. Darryl Morey just amnestied Luis Scola to get out of that no mans land.

    So, Orlando didn't get much back, but they now have a legit shot at getting someone like Shabazz or Jabari Parker. And, in a place like Orlando that is their only real shot at a title.
    I agree wholeheartedly about wanting to bottom out or compete for a title. But getting Pau and Bynum doesn't mean they have to keep both, or even one of them. It's not mandatory to build around them. Those guys would be pretty good assets to try and move around for actual picks and/or accumulating some form of younger talent.

    Instead, I think they panicked and got a complete pile of garbage. Bare min they should've been able to get rid of Hedo's contract if they're gonna move dwight.
    Newsflash!

    Joey Votto does not care about RBI.

    NEITHER SHOULD ANY OF US

  5. #199
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    The lockout and all those games lost did nothing to solve the NBA's issues. You might as well go back to the drawing board and work on a new CBA. The Lakers will have a luxury tax hit of over 100 million dollars and didn't even bat an eye at doing this deal. The era of the super powers teams is here to stay. Milwaukee, Houston, Toronto you might as well pack it in for the forseeable future. You have no shot.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  6. #200
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    It seemed fairly obvious that the only thing Orlando wanted in return was lottery picks. But, none of the proposed deals had them in there and so they cut bait and made a deal. Could they have waited and gotten more? Maybe.
    Houston's did.

    The Magic plan to suck this season. Likely next season as well and at least one beyond that. Those lottery picks plus those first round picks of the other teams should allow the team to be competitive in a few years. Harkless and, to a lesser extent, Vuvcevic, are lottery tickets. Perhaps they become starters on a good team, perhaps they get lucky and become stars.

    If not, they'll try to get league average starters from the Nugget, Laker, and 76er picks, and they'll hope they get difference-makers from their own picks.

    A best case scenario:
    Magic suck, but Harkless shows flashes of being very, very good as a SF. Vucevic also shows signs of being a solid center, with good perimeter skills. Aaron Afflalo takes the next step as a bona fide All-Star, while Glen Davis builds on his playoff run by going for 15/8 as the first inside option on offense and primary rebounder. They add a top pick in the draft in Shabazz Muhammed at PG.

    Next season, they lose some huge contracts, so they can then play the free agency game.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  7. #201
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Normally, I'm a big proponent of building through the draft. NFL. MLB. But the NBA is so much harder to accomplish that. Outside of the top 10 guys, a lot of these guys never make a serious impact. The picks they get in those trades are likely to be in the 20s, and may not even play in the league. And if they do, chances are they're just solid, league average players. That's it.

    As far as their own picks are concerned, they have a much better shot of adding a difference-maker. But even that isn't a guarantee. You're relying on the lottery, and even if you DO hit in the lottery, you're praying there's a franchise-changing player sitting there for you, and not Andrew Bogut or Kwame Brown.

  8. #202
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Normally, I'm a big proponent of building through the draft. NFL. MLB. But the NBA is so much harder to accomplish that. Outside of the top 10 guys, a lot of these guys never make a serious impact. The picks they get in those trades are likely to be in the 20s, and may not even play in the league. And if they do, chances are they're just solid, league average players. That's it.

    As far as their own picks are concerned, they have a much better shot of adding a difference-maker. But even that isn't a guarantee. You're relying on the lottery, and even if you DO hit in the lottery, you're praying there's a franchise-changing player sitting there for you, and not Andrew Bogut or Kwame Brown.
    But, that is the game. Aside from maybe a great QB in the NFL, no other sport is impacted by one player like the NBA. And, the only way for most teams to get that one player is in the lottery. So, teams are stuck in a tough position. Orlando, Houston, and New Orleans all bottomed out to get a potential franchise guy. NO got Davis and time will tell whether he is that guy, but the Magic and Rockets are going that same route.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  9. #203
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    One other thing to consider, I've read some rumors that the Magic's financial people were involved in this deal more than their GM. They recently fired Otis Smith, so the new guy may not have a firm hold in the front office.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  10. #204
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Unable to work out an extension with James Harden, the Oklahoma City Thunder traded the Sixth Man of the Year to the Houston Rockets on Saturday night, breaking up the young core of the Western Conference champions.

    The Thunder acquired guards Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb, two first-round picks and a second-round pick in the surprising deal that was completed Saturday night. Oklahoma City also sent center Cole Aldrich and forwards Daequan Cook and Lazar Hayward to Houston.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/85...ouston-rockets
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  11. #205
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    OKC made out like bandits in this deal. Granted, it's James Harden, but they got two quality wings and two first round picks that could be high given the Rockets haven't shown a winning consistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  12. #206
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    OKC made out like bandits in this deal. Granted, it's James Harden, but they got two quality wings and two first round picks that could be high given the Rockets haven't shown a winning consistency.
    From the same article.

    Houston collected draft picks while it was making a flurry of deals, part of a package to offer Orlando for Howard. The Rockets traded point guard Kyle Lowry to Toronto for a lottery-protected first-round pick, one of Oklahoma City's acquisitions on Saturday night.

    The other first-round pick was acquired by Houston when it traded Jordan Hill to the Los Angeles Lakers last March. The second-round pick came to the Rockets in a deal that sent guard Courtney Lee to Boston.
    Unless, Aldrich, Cook and Hayward meet or exceed their expectations, I agree with your assessment. Harden is obviously a solid player, but is best suited as a second or third banana.

    IMHO, Lamb is the key to the deal for OKC, some scouts have suggested that he could be the next Reggie Miller. Plus, Martin is in the last year of his contract, giving the Thunder future flexibility.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  13. #207
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    Harden's young, too. That Houston team is very, very young and set up for either a big free agent signee or a top draft pick. But it'll have to get lucky on the draft pick, as they're not bad enough to grab a sure-thing, nor good enough to deal a player or two for the pick.

    Nice, complimentary players at C, PF, SG, and PG. Lin and Harden will be an offensively-minded backcourt, capable of gong 17/5/6 apiece. I also think Terrence Jones will turn out to be a steal in a couple of years. He's only 20, and I could see him go 15/9/4 this year with much more ceiling as he matures. (The only questions are motor and outside shot, and, at least so far in pre-season and Las Vegas, his shot has fallen consistently. He's also added a step or two to the range he had at Kentucky.)

    Royce White has intriguing skills, as do the youngster from Turkey (Montiejunas) and Asik at center. For this year, Aldrich and Asik are going to rebound and block shots, Parsons and Brockman are going to shoot from long distance, Jones and White are going to do a little bit of everything, and the guard quartet of Delfino, Douglass, Lin, and Harden are going to be the primary drive and score guys.

    It's again a decent but not great team. Houston's spent countless hours and seemingly hundreds of players creating a team just about as good as the one they let go at the end of 2012.

    The more things change...
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  14. #208
    Member improbus's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    The Rockets have the best second unit in the league. It is just a shame that they are the Rockets first unit.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  15. #209
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    This is a fun must read for Hoop junkies. It is stuff like this that makes me love the NBA more than any other league.
    http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/wp-conte...on_Preview.pdf
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  16. #210
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    Re: 2013 NBA Offseason News

    I've been busting out the old school Hip Hop to get in the proper mindset for tomorrow night. Gang Starr, Rakim, Nas, Tribe, Westside Connection. So much good stuff.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero


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