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View Poll Results: Who will have the better career?

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  • Mesoraco

    49 72.06%
  • Grandal

    19 27.94%
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Thread: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

  1. #16
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Grandal - he will stick at catcher, will be adequate on D but better all around hitter though with a bit less power than Mes. Mes will be the better defender but less of a hitter - more power but other than that Grandal will outhit him in about every other area - BA, SP, OPS. Mes is patient enough he will likely be close in OBP. A player's offense tends to color his perception as a player overall and Grandal will get the nod because of that, although Mes will be the better catcher.

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  3. #17
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I won't even try to guess which one will have the better career. As others have said:

    1. Mes needs more playing time NOW. I do not buy the argument that "He needs to earn more at bats." If he played 4 out of 5 games, his bat would secure him into the 4 hole f the batting order.
    I could not disagree more. There is a heckuva lot more involved than just his bat when talking about a catcher. Hanigan is a much better catcher - better at handling the pitching staff, calling a game, and better defensively. Even if I could buy the hitting argument that Mes would blossom given 4 of 5 games as the starter, I think the Reds would give up a lot defensively and in handling the staff-an area that is hard to quantify statistically and therefore, you watch - it will be panned by critics as unimportant or overrated. I think it is critically important to good pitching and I think Hanigan is far and away better at this part of the game right now. It's this part of the game that I think Mes refers to when he says he learns more sitting on the bench in the majors than he learns catching every day in AAA.

  4. #18
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    It's super early, obviously, but Grandal's career WAR is higher than Mesoraco's. Mez has had around 180 career PA's while Grandal has 20.

  5. #19
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Hard for me to say because I don't see Grandal play.

    But I like what Mes has done this year. He has grown as an MLB player. He used to be stationary behind the plate but is getting better at positioning himself for pitches. His arm is becoming accurate and strong. His demeanor with his pitchers is getting more active. He has also started to have good ABs and work pitchers. He's showing good pop too. I don't know if he'll get to be a high BA guy, but he'll be a strong OBP/SLG guy.

    In a way, he reminds me of Votto in that his improvement is linear and plainly visible.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  6. #20
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    The 6-4-3 double post
    Last edited by Roy Tucker; 07-05-2012 at 06:28 PM.

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  7. #21
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I could not disagree more. There is a heckuva lot more involved than just his bat when talking about a catcher. Hanigan is a much better catcher - better at handling the pitching staff, calling a game, and better defensively. Even if I could buy the hitting argument that Mes would blossom given 4 of 5 games as the starter, I think the Reds would give up a lot defensively and in handling the staff-an area that is hard to quantify statistically and therefore, you watch - it will be panned by critics as unimportant or overrated. I think it is critically important to good pitching and I think Hanigan is far and away better at this part of the game right now. It's this part of the game that I think Mes refers to when he says he learns more sitting on the bench in the majors than he learns catching every day in AAA.
    The most difficult position in the game, easily overlooked on a daily basis by fans all around the game, it's taxing, it's cerebral... it's the funnest dang thing I ever did on a baseball field too

  8. #22
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Mes may end up being the better catcher. But I think Grandal, even if he moves to another position, has a better career. The kid has a sweet swing.

  9. #23
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    If Grandal has a good series against us and Mez struggles, this topic could get interesting.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  10. #24
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    If Grandal has a good series against us and Mez struggles, this topic could get interesting.
    I don't see how 4 games would give us any conclusive evidence to who will have the better career.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  11. #25
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I don't see how 4 games would give us any conclusive evidence to who will have the better career.
    Considering how we tend to judge an entire season on the game currently being played every night in the game thread I tend to think 4 games is a large sample size!

  12. #26
    Member Redlegs's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    I want my catcher to be a catcher first, hitter second. Piazza was a hitter but a joke behind the plate. Don't know much about Grandal. I know Mesoraco is supposed to be a heck of a catcher with a cannon of an arm. I'll take that.
    As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

  13. #27
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    I want my catcher to be a catcher first, hitter second. Piazza was a hitter but a joke behind the plate. Don't know much about Grandal. I know Mesoraco is supposed to be a heck of a catcher with a cannon of an arm. I'll take that.
    Don't know about Mez or Grandal yet, but I do know that Mike Piazza'a comps on his BR.com page are:

    Johnny Bench (826) *
    Yogi Berra (822) *
    Gary Carter (779) *
    Carlton Fisk (762) *
    Gabby Hartnett (757) *
    Bill Dickey (754) *
    Jorge Posada (745)
    Duke Snider (739) *
    Juan Gonzalez (738)
    Lance Parrish (738)


    Mike Piazza would have been the 3rd best catcher in Reds history, had he ever been a Red, behind Bench and Lombardi. I would take 10 years of that every single day, over both Mez and Grandal.

    Piazza is also 20th on the list of most games caught, ever. JB is 15th, and Lombardi is 27th. I would submit that Piazza was not a joke behind the plate- if so, he would have never caught that many games. I'd say he was not renowned for his defense, but played the position well enough to not be a full time DH in the AL.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...c_career.shtml
    Last edited by Always Red; 07-15-2012 at 12:43 AM.

  14. #28
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I don't see how 4 games would give us any conclusive evidence to who will have the better career.
    ....and all I said was if he has a good series this topic could get interesting.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  15. #29
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I could not disagree more. There is a heckuva lot more involved than just his bat when talking about a catcher. Hanigan is a much better catcher - better at handling the pitching staff, calling a game, and better defensively. Even if I could buy the hitting argument that Mes would blossom given 4 of 5 games as the starter, I think the Reds would give up a lot defensively and in handling the staff-an area that is hard to quantify statistically and therefore, you watch - it will be panned by critics as unimportant or overrated. I think it is critically important to good pitching and I think Hanigan is far and away better at this part of the game right now. It's this part of the game that I think Mes refers to when he says he learns more sitting on the bench in the majors than he learns catching every day in AAA.
    Which is why I would much rather have Mes than Grandal, I doubt it's ever close defensively. Personally I think almost every part of Grandals game is a bit overrated whereas for several years there Mes was underrated. That said Mes is now being a bit overrated, I doubt he is ever a legit #4 hitter but I still think he can hang with whatever Yasmani puts up in their primes.

    Mes = Miguel Montero's defense, Ramon Hernandez's bat (with a bit more pop and perhaps a slight drop in BA) .255/.330/.475
    Grandal = Ryan Doumit's defense, Montero's bat (solid average & discipline but less pop) .275/.340/.440
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 07-15-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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  16. #30
    Member Redlegs's Avatar
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Don't know about Mez or Grandal yet, but I do know that Mike Piazza'a comps on his BR.com page are:

    Johnny Bench (826) *
    Yogi Berra (822) *
    Gary Carter (779) *
    Carlton Fisk (762) *
    Gabby Hartnett (757) *
    Bill Dickey (754) *
    Jorge Posada (745)
    Duke Snider (739) *
    Juan Gonzalez (738)
    Lance Parrish (738)


    Mike Piazza would have been the 3rd best catcher in Reds history, had he ever been a Red, behind Bench and Lombardi. I would take 10 years of that every single day, over both Mez and Grandal.

    Piazza is also 20th on the list of most games caught, ever. JB is 15th, and Lombardi is 27th. I would submit that Piazza was not a joke behind the plate- if so, he would have never caught that many games. I'd say he was not renowned for his defense, but played the position well enough to not be a full time DH in the AL.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...c_career.shtml
    Johnny Bench threw out anywhere from 40 to 50% of would be base stealers. Piazza was as low as 14% or so in his career. A great hitter, no doubt. Easily below average defensively. Part of a winning formula is strength up the middle.
    As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.


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