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View Poll Results: Who will have the better career?

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  • Mesoraco

    49 72.06%
  • Grandal

    19 27.94%
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Thread: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

  1. #61
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    There [sic] age 23 stats are essentially the same when you factor in everything.
    Except they're really not the same. By a long shot.

    Grandal's WAR is 0.9 in around 100 ABs with a 146 wRC+.

    Mesoraco's WAR is 0.1 in around 180 ABs with a 64 wRC+.

    You're talking almost a win difference in almost half the ABs offensively. Grandal's offensive season is that (so far) of a difference-maker at a premium defensive position. Mesoraco is replacement level. No amount of "bad luck" Mesoraco's had touches that particular difference.

    Now, maybe Grandal's playing over his head. Maybe Mesoraco has another massive improvement left in him. Maybe it is a lack of playing time that's hindering Mesoraco's development. Maybe Grandal gets injured because he's taller than the average catcher.

    But those maybe's don't mask the fact that Grandal's been the better player at the major league level this season by a wide margin.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  3. #62
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Scrap Irony: except they really are about the same -- read it again -age 23 seasons.

    Mes has an OPS of .855 in the IL for 499 PA's and in the .580's from for 56 PA's in the mlb.
    Grandel's has an OPS of .935 in the PCL for 243 PA's and a .895 for 91 PA's in the mlb.

    Mes triple A OPS translates to .855 OPS over 499 PA's.
    Grandels triple A OPS translates to .830 OPS over 243 PA's.

    From an age 23 minor league perspective -Mes stats translate well and he has a slight advantage. Grandel goes on the have a 91 PA's with .945 OPS and that is a grea start to a MLB.

    Lastly-re this years WARP2 numbers -the FRAA numbers appear to point toward Grandel have trouble with defense (-5) to Mes FRAA at (+9) making this years WARP2 at .6 (YG) to .1 (DM).

    The difference in the 2 is not near what folks are saying is just not there.

  4. #63
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    I don't think the Reds went into this season expecting a lot offensively from Mes...

    Next year will tell us more.
    I believe you are right. I think next year he gets more playing time and you will see an improved bat.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  5. #64
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    I think this is a big adjustment year for Mez. No doubt he'd be getting better experience with more at bats, and his numbers would definitely improve. Frankly, I'd be surprised if Hanigan lost much of his current role next year. They guy calls a great game and controls the running game just as well. It could very well come down to "don't mess with success". That said, I think 2014 is a definite deadline for Mez's full on starting role. He'll be ready by then, for sure.

    Last year I ranked Grandal ahead of Mez because I liked his pedigree from Miami and he seemed to be showing a very mature approach right off the bat in the minor leagues. I thought that his floor was higher, basically. A lot of what Mez showed last year has carried over this year. He's a little hacktastic resulting in the ball not getting squared properly. Too max effort and not fluid enough at times. But goodness, he's got a lot of 450+ ft bombs in his future. I think he can follow the Miguel Montero track and be a great contributor by 25. Grandal reminds me a bit more like Russel Martin. I think Mez is a better fit for this team and would have really liked only to keep Grandal if he could be switched to 3rd base.

  6. #65
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Except they're really not the same. By a long shot.

    Grandal's WAR is 0.9 in around 100 ABs with a 146 wRC+.

    Mesoraco's WAR is 0.1 in around 180 ABs with a 64 wRC+.

    You're talking almost a win difference in almost half the ABs offensively. Grandal's offensive season is that (so far) of a difference-maker at a premium defensive position. Mesoraco is replacement level. No amount of "bad luck" Mesoraco's had touches that particular difference.

    Now, maybe Grandal's playing over his head. Maybe Mesoraco has another massive improvement left in him. Maybe it is a lack of playing time that's hindering Mesoraco's development. Maybe Grandal gets injured because he's taller than the average catcher.

    But those maybe's don't mask the fact that Grandal's been the better player at the major league level this season by a wide margin.
    Again, there is a huge BABIP difference (about 60 points) between the two players, despite a higher LD% from Mesoraco.

    Mesoraco's MLB career so far has been defined by his inability to buy a hit despite hitting a reasonable amount of line drives, and Grandal's is defined by his hitting 5 home runs in his first 20 PAs or whatever.

    Let's give them more than like 400 combined PAs before making a real judgement.
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    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment

  7. #66
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Mez has had a relatively low K rate for a young player, about 17.5%. If he were being fooled and swinging and missing a high number of pitches, it would be more concerning. It seems to me that his problem is that pitchers are using his aggressiveness to get him out. He is making weak contact on a high number of pitcher's pitches. As he learns to be more patient and take marginal pitches, he'll do fine.

  8. #67
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    I posted this in the Updates thread, but figured I'd cross post it here as well.

    Johnny Bench likes Grandal better than Mesoraco (and Hanigan).

    On the Reds’ catching tandem of Ryan Hanigan and Devin Mesoraco: “(Mesoraco) is still developing. I think you’re going to see a lot of good things from Devin. Hanigan has always been a great receiver. He’s got his average up around .290. I don’t think we’ve seen the best of him. I think he’s an even more productive hitter than he’s shown. He’s only got 23 RBIs; I thought that was a misprint. He has a good eye. I’ve talked to him about being more of a hands hitter than a body hitter and to get his hands to stay up. And (catcher Dioner) Navarro comes up and does a good job. We gave up (Yasmani) Grandal (in a trade to San Diego), and I thought that he was the best of all of them. Somebody knew that, too. I guess that’s why they wanted him in San Diego.”
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...Series-chances

  9. #68
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I posted this in the Updates thread, but figured I'd cross post it here as well.

    Johnny Bench likes Grandal better than Mesoraco (and Hanigan).



    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...Series-chances
    Thing is, I like Latos better than all three (and we still have two of them). If Hanigan and Mes are still here next year (which I fully expect) I would like to see them do what I would have this year - let Mes start the season ofr a month or two in L'Ville and let him get his batting legs under him. I'd either keep Navarro or acquire someone similar.

  10. #69
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    Re: Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?

    I'm firmly in the Grandal will have the better career, but not necessarily as a catcher camp.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14


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