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Thread: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    What scares me is how many Cardinals prospects made this list. It's truly a ridiculous number. And the Pirates too.
    We had 5. The most anyone else had was 7. I am not all that concerned that those two teams had a bunch. It isn't like we had 1.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    I don't know how others feel about this, but I've been generally more impressed with Sickels' perspective than other "experts" over the last few years. No one gets it right all the time, but Sickels seems to bring a personal perspective that is sometimes unique and usually on point. Anyone feel differently?

    While it's more important to "make" this list than not make it (and therefore not get too caught up over the actual rankings, it is interesting that he seems to put Corcino and Stephenson together, before a big gap, and then Cingrani and Lotzkar. Many on this board would likely switch Stephenson and Cingrani in their respective groupings.

    Also interesting that none of the Reds made "honorable mention" implying that there is a significantly large gap between these five guys and all other Reds prospects, including guys like Rodriguez, Gregorius and Lutz. I happen to agree with that take.

    Finally, it will be interesting if Travieso, and particularly Winker and Rahier with their hot starts make his future list that will include recent draftees. I would surmise that those three might fall somewhere in between the large gap between the top five and everyone else.
    Last edited by Benihana; 07-02-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    John Sickels came out with his Top 120 without draft picks included (count on about 15 or so draft picks to be inside the Top 120 at years end as well as maybe an international guy or two). Here is the link for the entire list:
    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...evision-update

    Here are the Reds, with previous ranking in ( )

    15) Billy Hamilton, SS, Cincinnati Reds (57)
    61) Daniel Corcino, RHP, Cincinnati Reds (120)
    63) Robert Stephenson, RHP, Cincinnati Reds (HM)
    94) Tony Cingrani, LHP, Cincinnati Reds (NR)
    114) Kyle Lotzkar, RHP, Cincinnati Reds (NR)

    Not a bad showing for our guys.
    True, but the Cards have 4 in the top 35. That's a much bigger advantage than the Reds have.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Other interesting names:

    Wheeler at 13 (what a return for the Mets on a rental)
    Rizzo at 22 (generally comp'd to Alonso, but clearly SD preferred Alonso)
    Grandal at 23
    Norris at 71
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  6. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    True, but the Cards have 4 in the top 35. That's a much bigger advantage than the Reds have.
    Sure, but our MLB roster is full of just graduated guys too. Theirs isn't.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    True, but the Cards have 4 in the top 35. That's a much bigger advantage than the Reds have.
    I would argue that 4 in the top 35 isn't all that different than 3 in the top 65.
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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I would argue that 4 in the top 35 isn't all that different than 3 in the top 65.
    Outside of Corcino, it's hard to get really exited about the Reds prospects in the top 120 right now. Hamilton is a fast guy with no power and still a questionable bat, Stephenson looks to be great some day, but we easily are 4-5 years away seeing him at The Show. I'm glad to have him, but it's going to be a long time before he contributes. Lotzkar is a throw away from an injury. Cingrani has me excited some, but there seems to be disagreements everywhere about his ceiling.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Sure, but our MLB roster is full of just graduated guys too. Theirs isn't.
    The Cardinals have a better pythag then the Reds right now with their current roster (and that's with all of the injuries). This means that the Cards have the option of bringing up these highly touted prospects or trading some of them for some real talent. Not to mention, the Cards have more payroll room than the Reds.

    I think it would be difficult to argue that the Reds are in a better position than the Cards right now.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Outside of Corcino, it's hard to get really exited about the Reds prospects in the top 120 right now. Hamilton is a fast guy with no power and still a questionable bat, Stephenson looks to be great some day, but we easily are 4-5 years away seeing him at The Show. I'm glad to have him, but it's going to be a long time before he contributes. Lotzkar is a throw away from an injury. Cingrani has me excited some, but there seems to be disagreements everywhere about his ceiling.
    Perhaps. But I would argue the Reds have the fewest holes to plug on their big league roster for the next 3-5 years out of almost all the clubs:

    LF, possibly 3B, possibly CF, and maybe one SP spot. That's pretty much it, at least as of right now. How many other clubs are set at least 8 and as many as 10 positions for the next 3-5 years?

    Given where we're at as an organization, I'm happy that outside of the 3 AA pitchers, most of our prospects are in Rookie League, 4-6 years away from contributing to the big club.
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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Perhaps. But I would argue the Reds have the fewest holes to plug on their big league roster for the next 3-5 years out of almost all the clubs:

    LF, possibly 3B, possibly CF, and maybe one SP spot. That's pretty much it, at least as of right now. How many other clubs are set at least 8 and as many as 10 positions for the next 3-5 years?
    Don't get me wrong, that's a very valid point. I do fear though that the Reds don't have a lot of payroll room to add the proper help for these other positions.

    Also, I do like the Reds' recent drafts and I'm excited for the future with the prospects, but the vast vast majority of these guys are still question marks and a long way off from the Show. I just feel like the Cardinals have more impact prospects right now than the Reds and are in a better overall position when you consider payroll.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Outside of Corcino, it's hard to get really exited about the Reds prospects in the top 120 right now. Hamilton is a fast guy with no power and still a questionable bat, Stephenson looks to be great some day, but we easily are 4-5 years away seeing him at The Show. I'm glad to have him, but it's going to be a long time before he contributes. Lotzkar is a throw away from an injury. Cingrani has me excited some, but there seems to be disagreements everywhere about his ceiling.
    Every pitching prospect is one throw away from an injury

    Really though, reports of improved mechanics from him make him less scary and volatile prospect wise.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    What scares me is how many Cardinals prospects made this list. It's truly a ridiculous number. And the Pirates too.
    I second this.

  14. #28
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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    Fear of Pirates and Cards prospects making a list like this is a bit silly, imo. There are going to be a bunch of prospects not even listed who make the majors and a lot of players on this list who don't. The Reds system is deep - mostly at the lower levels where I think it is really really deep. Almost to the point of where do we find enough places to play people? And the Reds have a slew of young guys - enough to weather a couple of years with limited graduations while the system grows into the upper levels. I'd be willing to bet anything the Reds system is the equal or better than either the Cards or the Pirates 2 years from now and the major league team will be just as competitive or better, too. I love the position the Reds are in and the way the system lines up especially the pitching - a whole rotation is growing in the minors with enough depth to withstand the normal fallout. I also like the upside or ML projectability of a number of players who did not make this list like HRod and Lutz, Soto (despite his poor year so far he still has a ton of power and will make a good trade chip) and a number of relievers.

    The Cards always compete well - so what? It just means the Reds have to do as good a job in all aspects. I'm not afraid of either team. Bring them on.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    All our players on this list moved in the right direction. That's more important to me.

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    Re: John Sickels Midseason Top 120 (no draft picks included)

    I think Cingrani is underrated, as Sickels hasn't seen him play. So he relying on substandard and out-of-date scouting reports. As Cingrani continues to pitch well in AA, he will rise on the list. (As he should.)

    I also think Henry Rodriguez is underrated. He's a .300/.350/.425 switch hitter that can play 3B. (That would rank in the top six or seven in all of baseball and fourth in the National League, btw.) He's young for AA and was dominating the league before injury.

    I also think Hamilton is overrated at 15, considering the questions about his bat and glove. He has to hit at a .300-ish rate, or he's Dee Gordon, part II. I'd rank him in the top 25 because of his speed, his hit tool, his improving BB and shrinking K rates, and his willingness and history of improvement/ hard work. But until he proves it in AA, that's as far as I would go.

    Lutz is a sleeper who could really surprise. I think his power will play just about anywhere and his hit tool is great to see.

    As far as young prospects, I suppose we'll see. I like Rahier, Winker, Stephenson, and company, but it's far too early to predict how they might play as they age. Cincinnati does have a group of kids who look to be interesting to follow, at least.
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