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Thread: Justin Upton...again

  1. #136
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Frazier, but that interview during a game a while back with Homer Bailey talking about how Todd Frazier kept everyone loose made me think he is a valuable component of the team chemistry. Maybe not a reason not to trade him.........but he's popoluar with his teammates. Might do some harm.
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  3. #137
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    When was the last time the Reds didn't give up a lot in a bigger than average trade?
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  4. #138
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I think Todd Fraziers are much easier to find than are Justin Uptons. I include Frazier in the deal and don't look back.
    Agreed, especially when you have Henry Rodriguez and David Vidal on the farm, and a guy like Youkilis potentially wanting to finish his career at home for cheap in FA (although that option becomes significantly less likely with Uptons salary on the books). Still for one second just imagine:

    Phillips 2B
    Youkilis 3B
    Votto 1B
    Upton LF
    Bruce RF
    Heisey CF (switching to Hamilton leading off in 2014)
    Hanigan/Mesoraco C
    Cozart SS

    I would think a package of Frazier, Stubbs, and Gregorius would certainly get their attention. If you add a guy like Bailey or Lotzkar, I think the Dbacks do that deal.

    I would of course offer H-Rod instead of Frazier first, but this COULD also be a sell-high move on Frazier. It's quite conceivable that he is not going to maintain an OPS above .825 in the future.
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  5. #139
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    When was the last time the Reds didn't give up a lot in a bigger than average trade?
    In terms of actual production, Jocketty has received more than he has given up, and it's not even close.
    According to b-rWAR, the Reds have had 10.6 WAR worth of production so far (and climbing with Latos and Marshall). The receiving teams have gotten 2.3 WAR.

  6. #140
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Frazier, but that interview during a game a while back with Homer Bailey talking about how Todd Frazier kept everyone loose made me think he is a valuable component of the team chemistry. Maybe not a reason not to trade him.........but he's popoluar with his teammates. Might do some harm.
    Chemistry schmemistry. Upton would help the Reds win more games; winning creates chemistry, too.

    I am sure Frazier's a nice guy. I'm sure a lot of the Reds are. That's not a reason to turn down a trade for one of the best young players in the game.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  7. #141
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Were I Arizona, I'd ask for Cozart and Frazier, on top of Corcino/ Cingrani and Joseph/ Hoover.

    Were I the Reds, I'd probably be tempted to say yes to that, though it'd hurt. A bunch.

    The first rule to building a team is to have league average or better at each spot.
    The second rule is to have/ find/ be willing to pay for as many difference-makers as payroll allows.

    You'd be breaking the first rule, but putting Upton between Votto and Bruce is really, really hard to pass up.
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  8. #142
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Were I Arizona, I'd ask for Cozart and Frazier, on top of Corcino/ Cingrani and Joseph/ Hoover.

    Were I the Reds, I'd probably be tempted to say yes to that, though it'd hurt. A bunch.

    The first rule to building a team is to have league average or better at each spot.
    The second rule is to have/ find/ be willing to pay for as many difference-makers as payroll allows.

    You'd be breaking the first rule, but putting Upton between Votto and Bruce is really, really hard to pass up.
    I'd be tempted but I don't know. But then I look at Gregorius and HRod and think yep, I'd probably do that deal. Much as I'd hate losing those 2 I think the production of HRod and Gregorious would be close and combined with what Upton brings its a better overall team. My only reservation is I think it may punt this season as 2 relatively young kids get pushed and Janish and Rolen take the bulk of this years reps.

  9. #143
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    If Texas is offering Profrar and Olt together (not to mention Perez), there's nothing anyone else in baseball can offer that would trump it. Profrar is the best prospect in baseball. Olt is an absolute masher who's improved enough this year to garner some consideration as the top 3B prospect in the game. Perez has been ranked among the highest prospects in the game for four years.

    Arizona might want those guys for Upton, but there's absolutely no way Texas is going to offer it. I don't know if they'd offer that for Mike Trout or Harper.
    They may not get an offer like that. I'd say if they don't, Upton stays in Arizona. They aren't shopping him and they don't need to trade him. If some one ponies up an offer they can't refuse, they are willing to pull the trigger (as opposed to declaring him untouchable). You want Upton, its going to take some combination of 3 players who play SS, 3B and Starting Pitcher with at least two of those being uber prospects. IMO, Texas, with Olt, Profar and Perez is one of the few organizations that have players like that and have enough at those positions at the major league level to be able to deal them. Given Hamilton's status, Upton makes sense in Texas and with Andrus, Beltre and a host of arms, the Rangers could make an offer like that with little to no impact on the major league product now or even in the mid-term future.

    I really have a hard time seeing any combination of prospects that the Reds could put togther to get the D-Backs to pull the trigger. As I said earlier, perhaps a Hamilton, Corcino, Frazier package could do it, but AZ seems to want something more major league ready. Maybe Chapman, Frazier, Gregorious could get it done. A deal for Upton is going to hurt some or Arizona just says no IMO.
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  10. #144
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    In terms of actual production, Jocketty has received more than he has given up, and it's not even close.
    According to b-rWAR, the Reds have had 10.6 WAR worth of production so far (and climbing with Latos and Marshall). The receiving teams have gotten 2.3 WAR.
    Good to know, but I wasn't questioning Walt's trade record. I was simply making the point that anyone who thinks we're going to pick up someone of value for a few spare parts is probably living a pipe dream.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  11. #145
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    Good to know, but I wasn't questioning Walt's trade record. I was simply making the point that anyone who thinks we're going to pick up someone of value for a few spare parts is probably living a pipe dream.
    I sure wouldn't call Frazier and Cozart spare parts?? Or are you talking about the people who think trading a couple of C prospects and someone like Stubbs is going to be enough?

  12. #146
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Were I Arizona, I'd ask for Cozart and Frazier, on top of Corcino/ Cingrani and Joseph/ Hoover.

    Were I the Reds, I'd probably be tempted to say yes to that, though it'd hurt. A bunch.
    It would certainly make us worse for 2012.

    We'd fill a potential hole at LF (though we are getting close to .800 OPS from Ludwick out there), but create huge holes at SS and 3B. Rolen could play a sparatic injury filled .625 OPS at 3B and Valdez could play an acceptable SS while posting a .600 OPS.

    Upton better OPS 1.200 to make up the difference this year.

    When you are trying to win the pennant you generally don't trade two of your current starters when you have zero depth in those areas.

    I'm not saying wither Cozart or Frazier are irreplaceable but the fact is they are not replaceable by us right now.

  13. #147
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    In terms of actual production, Jocketty has received more than he has given up, and it's not even close.
    According to b-rWAR, the Reds have had 10.6 WAR worth of production so far (and climbing with Latos and Marshall). The receiving teams have gotten 2.3 WAR.
    If you don't mind me asking, who is included in the 10.6?

  14. #148
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    In his article this morning Buster Olney speculated that the Reds could be one of the fits for an Upton deal, but that they'd have to part with Hamilton.

  15. #149
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Or are you talking about the people who think trading a couple of C prospects and someone like Stubbs is going to be enough?
    This.

    If we've learned one thing over the years, any blockbuster trade is going to look like we gave up too much on the surface.
    Last edited by OldXOhio; 07-12-2012 at 11:11 AM.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  16. #150
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Upton is the only player available that is worth considering trading Hamilton, plus he fits our needs now and in the long term. He is a star waiting to happen.

    Bum


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