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Thread: Justin Upton...again

  1. #91
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Chapman and a couple high level prospects would work just fine for Arizona, IMO.

    A deal of Chapman straight up for Upton may not work, but Chapman, Vidal, and Lotzkar would. (Then you could deal Stubbs for Pierre to round out the lineup and protect yourself from Upton's injury issues.

    Pierre LF
    Phillips 2B
    Votto 1B
    Upton RF
    Bruce CF
    Frazier/ Rolen 3B
    Mesigan C
    Cozart SS

    That gives up a bench of Heisey and Ludwick (strong, that), Frazolen, Hanoraco, and one middle infielder (Valdez or Janish, maybe Henry Rodriguez). That bench, while not as defensively strong, is much better hitting.

    I understand the questions about Bruce in CF, but, with Pierre in LF and Upton in RF, the overall defense would still be above league average, with plenty of range on both corners.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  3. #92
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Justin Upton is not included on a list of guys that I'd trade Chapman in order to get. The thing about that list is that those guys aren't available.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  4. #93
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Billy Hamiton and Aroldis Chapman are not getting traded for Justin Upton.

    The only way the Reds trade Chapman is in his contract year if he says he isn't coming back.

    The only way the Reds trade Hamilton is if he fails in the majors.

    These guys have unique value to the Reds because they lend excitement and fan interest to the team. They are going no place and for Upton, who the DBacks want to shed for whatever reason, no way.

  5. #94
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    [Hamilton and Chapman] have unique value to the Reds because they lend excitement and fan interest to the team. They are going no place and for Upton, who the DBacks want to shed for whatever reason, no way.
    I don't see them being traded together, but I could see one of them being dealt for the right player -- like Upton.

    Upton would lend his own excitement and fan interest to the team IMO. Any time your team has a chance to add one of the top young talents in the game, you see if you can do it.

    In any case, it is probably a pipe dream.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  6. #95
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I don't see them being traded together, but I could see one of them being dealt for the right player -- like Upton.

    Upton would lend his own excitement and fan interest to the team IMO. Any time your team has a chance to add one of the top young talents in the game, you see if you can do it.

    In any case, it is probably a pipe dream.
    I disagree here.

    Just my view, and I've said it before, but the Reds will not trade Chapman and will not trade Hamilton. They are star attractions. And potentially excellent players. The Reds want them for baseball reasons AND as attractions to create interest in the team and create revenue for the team.

    OK, would they trade one or both of them for Verlander? Sure, different story. For one of the big name attractions in baseball? Sure, if the money worked out.

    For Justin Upton? Absolutely no way.

  7. #96
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    .831 lifetime OPS and it's not trading upwards my any means.

    Sell the farm if you want, but selling everyone for someone who's expensive and not that great makes no sense.
    My thoughts exactly.. I'd love to have him, but I'm not emptying out the farm for him.

    His youth isn't attractive to me, because he is paid like a veteran performer.
    His contract:
    He gets a $1.25 million signing bonus, half on April 15 and the rest on July 15. He receives salaries of $500,000 this year, $4.25 million in 2011, $6.75 million in 2012, $9.75 million in 2013, $14.25 million in 2014 and $14.5 million in 2015.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #97
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Offer Stubbs, Ondrusek, Lotzkar and Vidal for him. Not too much, but not chop liver either.

  9. #98
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Chopped liver. I suggest Stubbs or Heisey, Dbacks choice; Lotzkar; Gregorius; Bray.

    If you put Gregorius in the deal with Lotzkar and an outfielder, you may get traction.

  10. #99
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Stubbs for Pierre?????

    Oh my.

    I have trouble comprehending that Stubbs can be the headliner in the deal for Upton, yet somethink his trade value equals Pierre.
    Last edited by PuffyPig; 07-09-2012 at 03:51 PM.

  11. #100
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Two thoughts:

    If the Reds don't include Chapman or Hamilton in the deal, I doubt they can outbid other teams for Upton.

    Upton was an MVP candidate last season and had an April thumb injury along with some bad luck in the first half this year. I don't think we can yet say that his OPS is "trending" any which way if we factor in those two variables.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  12. #101
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I understand the questions about Bruce in CF, but, with Pierre in LF and Upton in RF, the overall defense would still be above league average, with plenty of range on both corners.
    OF defense would be below league avergae.

    Pierre is a very bad OF with zero arm.

    Bruce is likley fair in CF, but below average.


    I'don't know how good Upton would be in RF, I just assume if ohe coyld play a passable RF he wouldn't be stuck in LF.

  13. #102
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    I still don't see anything happening because I don't believe the Reds will trade Chapman or Hamilton, thus eliminating any possible trade partners.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  14. #103
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The Reds don't have prospects like they did last year. Or the year before. There simply aren't "for sure" legit Major League starters in the system right now.

    Billy Hamilton - Still has questions about his bat and his defensive ability.
    Daniel Corcino - Some guys see him as a #3. Some guys see him as a #5.
    Robert Stephenson - I doubt he is on the block at all (same for Hamilton for that matter), but he is in rookie ball.
    Tony Cingrani - Scouts are still split as to whether he can even be a starter, much less a good one.
    Didi Gregorius - Solid prospect, but nothing elite.
    Henry Rodriguez - Not an ideal third baseman, hasn't played anywhere else this year. Always had questions about his defense at 2B.
    Kyle Lotzkar - Long injury history, tailing performance in AA right now
    JC Sulbaran - Very inconsistent.

    There isn't a sure fire guy in there. Not one. You trade those types of guys for elite level talents if you can.
    Agree with this. There isn't a prospect in the system that I'd lose a ton of sleep over trading. Hamilton may be the closest, but I wouldn't hesitate to move 2-3 other names on this list for a player of Upton's caliber.

    If it were up to me, I'd look to move Gregorius, Sulbaran, Rodriguez, Lotzkar, and Cingrani from that list in that order. I'd happily offer any 3 of those guys + Stubbs for Upton.

    If you're able to acquire a player of Upton's caliber signed through 2015 (and unload Stubbs in the process) without giving up Chapman, Hamilton, Corcino or Stephenson, you do it everytime.
    Go BLUE!!!

  15. #104
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    At this point, Corcino = Cingrani.

    In fact, you could certainly make the argument that Cingrani, being LH and having had nothing but success at the professional level, having the better K rate, lower BB rate, the better WHIP, et al, that Cingrani has passed Corcino as the top pitching prospect in the Cincinnati pipeline. In 30 starts, Cingrani has given up 100 hits. His ERA is 1.44. His K rate is 12.1. His fastball and change-up are considered good pitches, his control is considered as outstanding, and his slider is developing. In all, Cingrani's shown nothing but dominance, TOR production so far. And more than half of that was done in hitter's leagues.

    I agree that anyone not named Hamilton is fairly easy to move at this point, especially for a difference-maker like Upton. But I'd be at least as hesitant to move Cingrani as Corcino. Production like his doesn't happen every day. Especially not in Cincinnat's minor league system.
    Last edited by Scrap Irony; 07-10-2012 at 12:21 AM.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  16. #105
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    Re: Justin Upton...again

    Who the heck is trading for Stubbs? He's not a prospect anymore. He's 27 years old. He's a throw-in.

    Something about this Upton thing doesn't seem right. I think the dude is not healthy, or he's a clubhouse cancer. No way they would be looking to trade him otherwise. Heck, they are still in the race. Doesn't seem right to me. I think I'd stay away unless you get a godfather offer, and that's not going to happen.
    Last edited by gilpdawg; 07-10-2012 at 04:38 AM.


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