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Thread: Time for a new wave of negativity.

  1. #1
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    Time for a new wave of negativity.

    Dear Redzoners,

    If you are like me, you enjoy watching the Reds, especially when they are doing well.

    To have the third best record in the National League at the all star break, despite playing seven more games on the road, is something that makes me pretty happy.

    We are currently on a pace to win 90 games (89.58 really)... But if you looked at the majority of posts on the zone, you would think we were going to finish 54-108.

    As if that wasn't enough, things are about to get worse... Much worse. After the break...Even if the Reds retake first in the next few weeks, the board is going to be full of outrage. Why? Because one of three things is sure to happen, the Reds will sit tight, trade the wrong player or acquire the wrong player. It doesn't matter which players are involved... Unless the team acquires a perennial all-star and only gives up players that we were about to drop, the downers are going to be furious.

    Negativity is contagious here so be careful. Our rotation has been fantastic the last couple of weeks, but if you look at the game threads, I am not sure there has been a single game where someone hasn't posted that the starter "...just didn't have it that day." within the first three innings. For the downers, anytime a pitcher gives up consecutive base runners, he is off that day. If he gives up more than one run in an inning, he becomes the weak link in the rotation, and if he does that in consecutive games, he has no future and we should trade him ASAP.

    The worst thing is that no one is ever wrong in their negative predictions! Does that mean every negative prediction turns out right?
    No... It just means that the downers predict the downfall of every player on the roster (even Votto soon) and then only remind you of the one or two players they were right about. Then list 10 players that need to be traded for and ten players we should trade... And then remind you of the one of those ten that actually lived up to their prediction.

    Huge shout out to KC61 here, because he did something I seldom see...he was negative about Frazier, but then has gone out of his way to repeatedly mention that he was wrong. That's class in my book.

    Anyway.... This rant is just to say I am loving this season, and I love sharing the highs with the folks on the zone despite the constant negative static.

    Here's to a great second half for the Reds... No matter which players are or are not on the roster/lineup.
    Last edited by Brisco; 07-08-2012 at 10:51 PM. Reason: Typo

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  3. #2
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    I don't like generalizations.

    I am wrong all the time.

    It's the internet. A lot of people on here might use this forum to relieve their thoughts and angers. This forum may have saved some marriages or at least some remotes.

    The Reds are good. The main problem causing negativity might be that almost every team we match up against....we look easily better....but a few too many upsets and a lot of just ridiculous reasonings. Many of us aren't rooting for the playoffs...we are rooting to win in the playoffs and go all the way. Few see that right now. But it's there.

  4. #3
    Hanigan's Homies DirtyBaker's Avatar
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    A great post. Unfortunately, it's only going to put a little more fuel on the negative fire that has grown as this season has progressed.

    Some people can't take losing 45% of the time. At risk of sounding pompous, these are people that probably shouldn't be watching baseball, let alone post about it. In baseball, winning 55% of your games makes you a quality team, playoff caliber or close to it. It's the reason it's far and away that longest season of professional sports. Any day of the week, your team could either get blown out or embarrass the other team.

    But as tempted as I've been to create a thread like this, call out certain posters, and block others, Sundeck isn't going to change.

    If we're 5 games in 1st it needs to be 10. If we're a game back of the Pirates, the season is over.

    I haven't quit on Sundeck, but I have far less incentive to post here as I did on Opening Day. The inmates can run the asylum, but it won't stop me from enjoying some good baseball for a change.

  5. #4
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    I ask you both....and this is a concern for me.

    Are the Reds improving throughout the season?

    Pitching....Leake, Arroyo, Latos, Homer...all seem to be adjusting and improving. Bullpen....not so much....getting worse

    Defense....it's very good and is a mainstay.

    Baserunning.....not good and not improving

    Offense....Cozart a little, Frazier yes, Meso showing signs.

    I don't know that we are improving a little but will it be enough...time will tell.

    Go Reds!

  6. #5
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    fellas....we just went 6-5 on the longest, most brutal west coast trip in recent memory. God....who schedules a 2 week road trip right before the all-star break? It could of been horrible. I remember 2-8 west coast trips. It's been our achilles heel many seasons. MLB screwed the reds, and we made the best of it. Any and I say ANY winning road trip is a success.

    Normally with the Reds I am waiting for the inevitable to happen...not this year. We got pitching. "It ain't no smoke and mirrors." No negativity here!
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  7. #6
    Hanigan's Homies DirtyBaker's Avatar
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    Ironman, I was not directing that at you, but there's plenty of things I could harp on if you want to get into specifics. Base running and bunting bother me the most. Pitching has been about as consistent as I've ever seen this team, and the same five starters have gone the whole year, which is unbelievable. You will hear no complaints from me in that region, SP or RP, since Marshall was relegated to set-up man (Dusty's best move this year).

    Offensively you HAVE to say this team improved. Remember April and May? We were lucky to get 3 runs. I think it was us, Philly, and Pitt as the worst three teams in the NL in run production after the first month. Frazier's presence has a lot to do with the offense coming back IMO.

    But I'm not talking about individual facets of the game such as base running or relief pitching. I'm talking about blanket statements like "I just can't watch this team anymore," "We're done," and the week before Rolen's return where all we could talk about was how awful it was going to be with him back, only to have him return to the team knocking the ball opposite field, and getting on base in the NY series'. It just doesn't add anything to the forums.

    I get that people want to vent. I'm asking for it to be creatively or be impartial because nobody wants to read someone else whining.
    Last edited by DirtyBaker; 07-09-2012 at 01:56 AM.

  8. #7
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    I say just tell the truth. Give credit where it's due, critique when it's merited. Be fair.

    If it's done like that and people respect each other, it makes for a much more interesting forum than one where everyone is automatically "positive" or agrees with each other across the board.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  9. #8
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    I say just tell the truth. Give credit where it's due, critique when it's merited. Be fair.

    If it's done like that and people respect each other, it makes for a much more interesting forum than one where everyone is automatically "positive" or agrees with each other across the board.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  10. #9
    Member chuck6660's Avatar
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    If you post or follow the Reds via the "Redszone" yiou are probably a Reds fan. Yes some of us want to win every game, while I know it's not possible, I hate losing. Does feeling frustrated about this team when they fail to play up to expectations, mean we should stop following the Reds? I would hope not. Maybe if I keep a good attitude, some day I can be in the ORG.

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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    Posts like these are why the reds lose. I mean if we keep writing posts like these the team is going to be 5 games below 500 by end of july. I can't believe we have a post like this. Id say send this post down to a newspaper, it shouldn't be in the redszone. I mean why in the world the mediators let this post stay is beyond me, not well managed imo. We've got plenty other good posts just waiting to be read and we have to keep reading ones like this! We've go to make some changes. Here's what I would do if I were mediator...
    1. Allow posts that are short and quick to read
    2. Allow posts that will exciting and fill up the fan base
    3. Allow Posts that always connect to the people!!
    4. Allow Posts using BIG POWERFUL WORDS!!!
    5. Allow posts that appeal to the left wingers.
    6. Allow posts that appeal to the right wingers.
    7. Allow posts that appeal to conservatives.
    8. Stub out all posts that strikeout and have nothing to say.
    9. Finally allow posts that deliver something even if its just to move people.

  12. #11
    Member Kcbuckeye22's Avatar
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    Am I bitter....yes.

    This is why

    Rolen over Frazier

    Stubbs slumping/not wanting to listen to coaches/striking out. While Ludwick seems to be coming around.

    The 9th inning blunder in game one in SD.

    Charging Chapman out for 4 blown saving when he was obviously off.

    Starters getting QSs without the Offense.

    Speed vs OBP. Leadoff and 2 Hole. This is a disservice to Votto. Hanny can score on the doubles Joeys putting up.

    Dusty has control. I just want him to do something about it.

    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

  13. #12
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    Am I negative about a few things, heck yeah I am....it is my right as a fan of this organization for nearly 30 years. I love the pitching with the exception of a few instances mainly dealing with leaving Arroyo out to long and still do not get throwing Bray into a bases loaded jam for his first appearance off the DL.

    Trotting out Stubbs everyday and the handling of Frazier has been really annoying. These along with poor production at the top baffle me how Baker is handling the team. As a fan, I hate how most here jump all over Ludwick when the man has done nothing but produce since the first month or so, again once he swings a hot bat he sits....

    All in all, the season has been fun and since Baker will make us live with Stubbs I really hope he gets it together.

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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck6660 View Post
    If you post or follow the Reds via the "Redszone" yiou are probably a Reds fan. Yes some of us want to win every game, while I know it's not possible, I hate losing. Does feeling frustrated about this team when they fail to play up to expectations, mean we should stop following the Reds? I would hope not. Maybe if I keep a good attitude, some day I can be in the ORG.
    Chuck

    Frustration is one thing... Whining is another. I do not recall any of your posts, so this is not directed at you but a response to your post.

    What I detest is supposed 'fans' that are obviously no longer rooting for members of their team to do well each and every at bat or pitch.

    To way to many of the downers, it is more important to be right than for the Reds to win. These are the ones who post the "now he is going to stay in the two hole for two more months" after Stubbs hits a home run. These are the same guys that, after they say that a certain pitcher, be it Leake, Bailey, or Arroyo deserves to be dumped for a bag of balls, are actually disappointed when that pitcher appears to be doing well.

    I get that baseball is all about second-guessing everything... And that is what attracts many folks to the sport... But can we leave off the negative hyperbole?

    It's weird... You won't find many folks on this board using positive hyperbole to discuss Reds, but the negative hyperbole is in every single thread.

    I can't count the number of times I have heard other teams described as a "AAA offense" by a downer whenever a Reds pitcher they are secretly rooting against is having a good night... Or that ..."(fill in the blank) is the worst hitter/pitcher/fielder/manager/general manager in all of baseball."

    Go back and read the preseason threads and count how many times folks said Arroyo needed to be dropped, traded for a bag of balls, of moved to mop up duty in the bullpen. How many of those folks have since come back and said they are pleased with how well he has done this year?

    If you are critiquing because you want the Reds to win and have ideas of how to improve them... Great, I love to read it.

    If you are critiquing just because you want to be right and you reach a point where being right becomes more important than the Reds winning...

  15. #14
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco View Post
    Dear Redzoners,

    If you are like me, you enjoy watching the Reds, especially when they are doing well.

    To have the third best record in the National League at the all star break, despite playing seven more games on the road, is something that makes me pretty happy.

    We are currently on a pace to win 90 games (89.58 really)... But if you looked at the majority of posts on the zone, you would think we were going to finish 54-108.

    As if that wasn't enough, things are about to get worse... Much worse. After the break...Even if the Reds retake first in the next few weeks, the board is going to be full of outrage. Why? Because one of three things is sure to happen, the Reds will sit tight, trade the wrong player or acquire the wrong player. It doesn't matter which players are involved... Unless the team acquires a perennial all-star and only gives up players that we were about to drop, the downers are going to be furious.

    Negativity is contagious here so be careful. Our rotation has been fantastic the last couple of weeks, but if you look at the game threads, I am not sure there has been a single game where someone hasn't posted that the starter "...just didn't have it that day." within the first three innings. For the downers, anytime a pitcher gives up consecutive base runners, he is off that day. If he gives up more than one run in an inning, he becomes the weak link in the rotation, and if he does that in consecutive games, he has no future and we should trade him ASAP.

    The worst thing is that no one is ever wrong in their negative predictions! Does that mean every negative prediction turns out right?
    No... It just means that the downers predict the downfall of every player on the roster (even Votto soon) and then only remind you of the one or two players they were right about. Then list 10 players that need to be traded for and ten players we should trade... And then remind you of the one of those ten that actually lived up to their prediction.

    Huge shout out to KC61 here, because he did something I seldom see...he was negative about Frazier, but then has gone out of his way to repeatedly mention that he was wrong. That's class in my book.

    Anyway.... This rant is just to say I am loving this season, and I love sharing the highs with the folks on the zone despite the constant negative static.

    Here's to a great second half for the Reds... No matter which players are or are not on the roster/lineup.
    Be careful - you'll be accused of being too enthuiastic or your cup is overflowing or you're drinking too much kool-aid.

    Oh and btw, I agree with everything you're saying.

  16. #15
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Time for a new wave of negativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco View Post
    Dear Redzoners,
    ...
    I agree with you. This team has been particularly fun to watch this year, albeit a little frustrating. A ton of talent, dynamic personalities, a little off season hype... can't really ask for much more.

    I know Baker takes the most heat, but I think he is overall a good manager. Not the best... maybe not even top 5 in MLB, but certainly above average IMO, and he's been very good for the morale of our team. Looking back at some of the terrible losses we have had on recent sundays, I think DB deserves some credit for keeping the fight alive in this team. I remember Reds teams from the past 12 years or so that would completely implode after a loss like the one against Detroit or the one against SF. Not this time.

    Stubbs has struggled, along with Rolen and at times Latos, Bailey, Leake and Chapman, but some guys on the team have really shined, including those pitchers.

    Bottom line for me is like you said: 3rd best record in the NL with a good amount more of away games in the schedule. We've also played a bunch of tough teams it has seemed. One game out at the ASB, and I trust our guys to get the job done and win this division. Yeah, the Pirates are good and yeah the Cards are good. I just feel that we are a bit better.

    Here is to hoping that the trade we might make works out for us in October.


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