Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

[KoryMac5]

Nobody in this situation looks good at all, not the NCAA, not the Paterno supporters, and not the State of Pennsylvania who brought the suit. I don't think anyone will forget what happened in Happy Valley and they probably shouldn't either.

[RedsManRick]

Would the outcome have been different had JoePa been out of a job for those games? I think that's kind of the point they try to make when they vacate wins for things.

And yet you'd vote for Bonds and Clemens in the HOF if I'm not mistaken. I'm not a fan of trying to re-write history. I understand what they're trying to do; I just don't see the logic in it. I don't see it accomplishing anything. If anything, it hurts other people who don't share Paterno's culpability while detracting from the more important conversation.

But what's a little collateral damage if it makes us feel better about the whole thing? It's revenge, not justice. As Jojo's post either displays (or it would display if he were merely be sarcastic, I can't tell) is that we're really good at wanting to punish people who do harm in retrospect and not quite as sensitive to harm we might cause in the process of meting out that supposed justice.

[traderumor]

I disdain what happened at Penn St. But it aint like they used ineligible players or had recruiting violations. The kids won the games on the field and did it honestly. The act/acts of the coaching staff and administration in criminal activity should in no way be the NCAA's concern. But they made it such. Strip the University of wins because an assistant coach liked young boys? Strip them of wins because of an administrative cover-up? Strip them of wins because Paterno didn't do anything? Makes no sense at all to me. All it does is punish the young men that were on the field.

It is rare that crimes only affect the parties committing the crimes and their direct victims. There is always fallout/collateral damage to wrongdoing. A wise man said it as "a little leaven permeates the whole lump." Leaders make decisions/commit acts that affect the entire organization, good and bad. That it affects those indirectly that committed no wrongdoing is the way it works, and is a basis for punishing those that commit the acts.

For example, the German people suffered for Adolf Hitler's war crimes and crimes against humanity. That coward killed himself. Why should the people be subjected to punishment for things their leader did? With the hope that the German people would not let another like him come to power again.

[Assembly Hall]

It is rare that crimes only affect the parties committing the crimes and their direct victims. There is always fallout/collateral damage to wrongdoing. A wise man said it as "a little leaven permeates the whole lump." Leaders make decisions/commit acts that affect the entire organization, good and bad. That it affects those indirectly that committed no wrongdoing is the way it works, and is a basis for punishing those that commit the acts.

For example, the German people suffered for Adolf Hitler's war crimes and crimes against humanity. That coward killed himself. Why should the people be subjected to punishment for things their leader did? With the hope that the German people would not let another like him come to power again.

Interesting comparison. One of which I don't think applies in this case. A lot of the German people were active in what Hitler did. But in a smaller scale, this country has laws and a justice system to handle such things as what happened at Penn St. I dunno, the players had nothing to do with it and honestly no NCAA infractions occurred. Trust me, I get sick when thinking about it. If one of my sons would have been one of those that was affected, I would have shot Sandusky and then turned my sights on Paterno.

[traderumor]

Interesting comparison. One of which I don't think applies in this case. A lot of the German people were active in what Hitler did. But in a smaller scale, this country has laws and a justice system to handle such things as what happened at Penn St. I dunno, the players had nothing to do with it and honestly no NCAA infractions occurred. Trust me, I get sick when thinking about it. If one of my sons would have been one of those that was affected, I would have shot Sandusky and then turned my sights on Paterno.

I'm not sure that it doesn't apply, since there was some clear denial going on in the PSU supporters' reaction to all this stuff. Their outrage is more about the implications on the football program than the stuff that happened under their noses. This seems to vindicate their position and say "its all about the football, stupid."

[dougdirt]

And yet you'd vote for Bonds and Clemens in the HOF if I'm not mistaken. I'm not a fan of trying to re-write history. I understand what they're trying to do; I just don't see the logic in it. I don't see it accomplishing anything. If anything, it hurts other people who don't share Paterno's culpability while detracting from the more important conversation.

But what's a little collateral damage if it makes us feel better about the whole thing? It's revenge, not justice. As Jojo's post either displays (or it would display if he were merely be sarcastic, I can't tell) is that we're really good at wanting to punish people who do harm in retrospect and not quite as sensitive to harm we might cause in the process of meting out that supposed justice.

Child rape is not equivalent to some guys taking PED's in an era where there were so many people also taking PED's that it's not funny.

I'm fine with revenge, but this isn't it. Taking away meaningless wins isn't revenge for turning your head to what happened.

[Assembly Hall]

I'm not sure that it doesn't apply, since there was some clear denial going on in the PSU supporters' reaction to all this stuff. Their outrage is more about the implications on the football program than the stuff that happened under their noses. This seems to vindicate their position and say "its all about the football, stupid."

I get what you are saying now tr. My apologies, I didn't think of it in that light. The German people knew what was going on, but they were living the good life. Same at Happy Valley, there were people that knew what was going on and didn't want the castle to crumble. Pitiful. But taking wins away aint or never was the solution. The NCAA should have just shut the program down and said this is not to be tolerated. Just my thoughts.

[jojo]

And yet you'd vote for Bonds and Clemens in the HOF if I'm not mistaken. I'm not a fan of trying to re-write history. I understand what they're trying to do; I just don't see the logic in it. I don't see it accomplishing anything. If anything, it hurts other people who don't share Paterno's culpability while detracting from the more important conversation.

But what's a little collateral damage if it makes us feel better about the whole thing? It's revenge, not justice. As Jojo's post either displays (or it would display if he were merely be sarcastic, I can't tell) is that we're really good at wanting to punish people who do harm in retrospect and not quite as sensitive to harm we might cause in the process of meting out that supposed justice.

What jojo's post displays is an acknowledgement that for what Sandusky did to be allowed to happen, especially, for the duration that it went on, there had to be a culture present at PSU that is the antithesis of what is the ideal for an institution of higher learning and it was so egregious in fact that the institution, frankly, doesn't deserve to function as such going forward. I'm good with PSU possibly being allowed to operate as an online university going forward but there is no way that PSU should be trusted let alone commissioned to shape the characters and minds of young people in the flesh.

[Assembly Hall]

What jojo's post displays is an acknowledgement that for what Sandusky did to be allowed to happen, especially, for the duration that it went on, there had to be a culture present at PSU that is the antithesis of what is the ideal for an institution of higher learning and it was so egregious in fact that the institution, frankly, doesn't deserve to function as such going forward. I'm good with PSU possibly being allowed to operate as an online university going forward but there is no way that PSU should be trusted let alone commissioned to shape the characters and minds of young people in the flesh.

There is still a big part of me that thinks the B1G should have kicked them out of the conference. Hell, it wouldn't have bothered me a bit.

[Caveat Emperor]

Remember when people on this thread thought that Penn State football would be "devastated" by those ultra-severe NCAA sanctions?

Good times.

WE ARE PENN STATE!

[Assembly Hall]

Well Penn State sucks in my book, no pun intended. Never liked them being in the B1G in the first place. Dang at least SMU was about money, not violating young children.

[KronoRed]

Remember when people on this thread thought that Penn State football would be "devastated" by those ultra-severe NCAA sanctions?

Good times.

WE ARE PENN STATE!

Yep, big mistake, they should have been given the death penalty and been ejected from the big10, instead other schools now know they can cover up rape and get a slap on the hand, heck last years national champ might have already done so.

[Chip R]

Well Penn State sucks in my book, no pun intended. Never liked them being in the B1G in the first place. Dang at least SMU was about money, not violating young children.

I tend to think that the same thing would happen at other schools. Not all, but it would take some brave people to kill the golden goose.

[cumberlandreds]

Well Penn State sucks in my book, no pun intended. Never liked them being in the B1G in the first place. Dang at least SMU was about money, not violating young children.

Penn State's administration should have shut down the program. It shows what they are all about by basically doing nothing with all of that going on.

[Assembly Hall]

Penn State's administration should have shut down the program. It shows what they are all about by basically doing nothing with all of that going on.

Too much at stake from their perspective I suppose. Paterno and Penn St. football ruled that university and perhaps the state in general.