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Thread: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

  1. #121
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    State owned Universities and the NCAA are a lot of things but capitalism isn't one of them
    No, but the surrounding businesses and the way said universities affect their market share is.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  3. #122
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    State universities are not capitalism.
    I didn't say they were. As I said above, the surrounding markets are. I want the university punished. If, as a result of that punishment - surrounding private businesses get hurt, then that happens. And that IS capitalism.

    This doesn't necessarily apply to you, but I've noticed more than one person in here who would normally want government to stay out of business and the private sector and let nature take it's course. Then why are we advocating letting Penn State get off free because we're afraid of how it will affect the surrounding private sector businesses?
    Last edited by The Operator; 07-19-2012 at 03:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  4. #123
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    State universities are not capitalism.

    I guess I view things differently than you do. I want the guilty parties punished. I don't find any joy in seeing innocent people hurt becasue of the transgressions of others.
    So you're okay with universities firing head coaches for breaking the rules and receiving no sanctions afterward?

    That seems to me as if it's treating a sympton but not its cause.

    Penn State, as an institution (and Happy Valley as a town) has chosen to put football above the welfare of its children. Children!

    Football and the cult of personality behind Joe Paterno continues, as seen with present-day administration, alumni, and students, continues to be the primary focus of the university and its people.

    Therefore, IMO, the best policy is that football shouldn't exist, in that such a time as it becomes less important to all.

    It's the very definition of a university (and town) that's lost its way. That way needs to be righted by whatever means the NCAA has.
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  5. #124
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    I'm fine with the university continuing to exist. But the football program should be killed.

    If a program doesn't get the death penalty for looking the other way when kids were getting molested then good god, what is the point in even having an NCAA?
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  6. #125
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    I didn't say they were. As I said above, the surrounding markets are. I want the university punished. If, as a result of that punishment - surrounding private businesses get hurt, then that happens. And that IS capitalism.

    This doesn't necessarily apply to you, but I've noticed more than one person in here who would normally want government to stay out of business and the private sector and let nature take it's course. Then why are we advocating letting Penn State get off free because we're afraid of how it will affect the surrounding private sector businesses?
    Penn State is not private industry though, it is a state sponsored institution of higher learning.
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  7. #126
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    I'm fine with the university continuing to exist. But the football program should be killed.

    If a program doesn't get the death penalty for looking the other way when kids were getting molested then good god, what is the point in even having an NCAA?
    Death Penalty won't happen. Only one school (SMU) has ever received it and that was after being place on probation. I think what you will see is the NCAA gut the program for a number of yrs with ways to reduce the penalties based on PSU's willingness to make improvements to the culture there.
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  8. #127
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I don't think it's to shut down universities.
    Well, technically removing their ability to get federal money wouldn't have to shut them down. Just downsize by 80%.

  9. #128
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Penn State is not private industry though, it is a state sponsored institution of higher learning.
    I've never disputed that. The surrounding businesses ARE private industry though. To let their well-being influence disciplinary decisions re: Penn State is not something I want to see happen. Businesses fail all the time because large employers nearby have problems. Such is capitalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  10. #129
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ndusky-scandal

    Penn State University trustee Steve Garban, the chairman of the board during the Jerry Sandusky scandal, has stepped down, chairwoman Karen Peetz said Thursday. The investigators of the Freeh report blamed the trustees' culture of secrecy and deference for university leaders to allow the crisis to do more to harm Penn State's reputation than any other event in its 156-year history.

  11. #130
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Death Penalty won't happen. Only one school (SMU) has ever received it and that was after being place on probation. I think what you will see is the NCAA gut the program for a number of yrs with ways to reduce the penalties based on PSU's willingness to make improvements to the culture there.
    The football program will be a rallying point for students and alums looking to support their embattled school.

    The only way to change the culture away from the "Football *is* Penn State" is to eliminate the program entirely and allow the university to function without it.
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The football program will be a rallying point for students and alums looking to support their embattled school.

    The only way to change the culture away from the "Football *is* Penn State" is to eliminate the program entirely and allow the university to function without it.
    And you might as well shut down the entire sports program then. Without football the athletic department goes belly up. Is it fair to penalize hundreds (if not thousands) of student athletes because of the actions of a handful? What about B1G's already released schedule? What about the contracts Penn State has already signed? Because of the actions of a few. Does B1G still get to have their championship game with 11 members because its already been scheduled? Are you going to allow any member of Penn State athletic teams to transfer to another school when the school has to cut its program?

    The NCAA saw this with SMU and it is why it (death penalty) hasn't been used since the mid 80s. It affects WAY too many other schools to issue the death penalty. Its disgusting what occured there but A) Paterno is dead and his legacy is crumbling, B) Sandusky won't see the light of freedom the rest of his life, C) The administration has been changed, D) I figure were not done with the changes to the BOT.
    Last edited by Slyder; 07-20-2012 at 10:06 AM.
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  13. #132
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    And you might as well shut down the entire sports program then. Without football the athletic department goes belly up. Is it fair to penalize hundreds (if not thousands) of student athletes because of the actions of a handful? What about B1G's already released schedule? What about the contracts Penn State has already signed? Because of the actions of a few. Does B1G still get to have their championship game with 11 members because its already been scheduled? Are you going to allow any member of Penn State athletic teams to transfer to another school when the school has to cut its program?

    The NCAA saw this with SMU and it is why it (death penalty) hasn't been used since the mid 80s. It affects WAY too many other schools to issue the death penalty. Its disgusting what occured there but A) Paterno is dead and his legacy is crumbling, B) Sandusky won't see the light of freedom the rest of his life, C) The administration has been changed, D) I figure were not done with the changes to the BOT.
    Hurting lots of people is kind of the point -- you don't change cultures and serve warnings to the rest of the world by nicely asking and limiting collateral damage. This is an opportunity for the NCAA and the civilized world to push back and remind places like Penn State that they are institutions of higher learning that happen to have an athletic department. There's a reason they say "student" first in the term "student-athletes" -- they're allegedly at school to get an education, not run track and field or play football.

    And really, you CAN minimize the damage to non-guilty parties by allowing free transfers and granting an extra year of eligibility to everyone who leaves.
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  14. #133
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Hurting lots of people is kind of the point -- you don't change cultures and serve warnings to the rest of the world by nicely asking and limiting collateral damage. This is an opportunity for the NCAA and the civilized world to push back and remind places like Penn State that they are institutions of higher learning that happen to have an athletic department. There's a reason they say "student" first in the term "student-athletes" -- they're allegedly at school to get an education, not run track and field or play football.

    And really, you CAN minimize the damage to non-guilty parties by allowing free transfers and granting an extra year of eligibility to everyone who leaves.
    My thoughts exactly. Making it painful IS the point. If you let PSU off the hook with a slap on the wrist, why would they change their culture. They'll just become emboldened.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  15. #134
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    I think the goal here is to show other institutions - be they football, basketball or baseball powers - that wrongdoing and cover-ups will not be tolerated. It's not necessarily to punish Penn State - but it's so someone at State U who learns of something going on that is illegal - either as far as the NCAA is concerned or the criminal justice system - reports that activity and the guilty party pays the consequences. These coaches and administrators should be made to realize that covering up criminal - and rulebook - activity is eventually going to cost them their jobs, their legacies, a lot of money and - quite possibly - their freedom.
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    Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

    They're taking the statue down. Smart move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
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