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Thread: Hoover?

  1. #16
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    Re: Hoover?

    I understand the importance of having the additional left hander in the pen, but Bray hasn't really looked right since his return from injury. He needs to have a reoccurence (wink, wink) of his injury and log some rehab innings at Louisville. Simply put: Hoover and Joseph are both pitching better at this time.

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  3. #17
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Hoover?

    I'm not sure the struggles of Ondrusek can be completely understood until you put his peripherals into proper context with his peers.

    Of the 155 relief pitchers that qualify (minimum 26.2 IP) in 2012, Ondrusek ranks:

    #144 of 155 in fWAR (-.03)
    #138 of 155 in K/9 (5.68)
    #143 of 155 in BB/9 (5.40)
    #141 of 155 in FIP (4.93)
    #152 of 155 in xFIP (5.22)

    NL only (out of 80 relief pitchers with at least 26.2 IP):

    #72 of 80 in fWAR (-.03)
    #74 of 80 in K/9 (5.68)
    #72 of 80 in BB/9 (5.40)
    #71 of 80 in FIP (4.93)
    #77 of 80 in xFIP (5.22)

    And this is not some strange fluke that is only occurring in 2012. Let's look at 2011.


    In 2011, of the 134 relief pitchers that qualify (minimum 48.2 IP), Ondrusek ranked:

    #120 of 134 in fWAR (-.02)
    #113 of 134 in K/9 (6.02)
    #104 of 134 in BB/9 (4.11)
    #119 of 134 in FIP (4.43)
    #118 of 134 in xFIP (4.49)

    Now NL only in 2011, out of 71 relief pitchers that qualify:

    #64 of 71 in fWAR (-.02)
    #61 of 71 in K/9 (6.02)
    #54 of 71 in BB/9 (4.11)
    #66 of 71 in FIP (4.43)
    #66 of 71 in xFIP (4.49)

    Since 2010, there have been 66 NL relief pitchers with at least 100 IP. Within that 66, he ranks:


    #63 of 66 in fWAR (-.05)
    #63 of 66 in K/9 (5.93)
    #52 of 66 in BB/9 (3.98)
    #62 of 66 in FIP (4.49)
    #63 of 66 in xFIP (4.52)


    So I guess if one wants to argue with the definition of struggling, fine. Be my guest. If you don't define struggling as being in the bottom 5-10% in nearly every category and being sub-replacement level, then sure, I guess he's not struggling according to that definition.

  4. #18
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Hoover?

    Ondrusek has been just awful this season. Reminds me a ton of Gary Majewski (another guy billed as a late inning option because of some nice luck and "late inning mentality"). Very hittable, doesn't have superb control, is not a groundball ace. He's at best, a ROOGY, that should be used in spot situations in order to avoid being exposed. I think Buckeye did a very good job of quantifying just how awful Ondrusek has been this season.

  5. #19
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    Re: Hoover?

    Buckeye's post is certainly an eye-opener. His struggles have been evident, but I didn't realize they had reached that extent. One caveat: like so many of the Reds, he's a streaky dude. He'll have his stretches of effectiveness.

    In the meantime, his whole scenario makes me wonder whether he might be a candidate for conversion to a starter. One of his troubles out of the bullpen has been a tendency to drop off sharply with frequent usage. Maybe the every-fifth-day schedule would suit him better. He does seem to have an adequate mix of fastball, sinker, curve. And he definitely has the body of a starter. In the minors, he found success when they switched him from starting to relieving, but that seemed to coincide with his development of the two-seamer, or whatever it was that Tom Brown taught him. Given that he has made himself somewhat expendable as a reliever, it seems to be worth a shot.

  6. #20
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    Re: Hoover?

    dp
    Last edited by mace; 07-17-2012 at 11:12 AM. Reason: double post

  7. #21
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I'm not sure the struggles of Ondrusek can be completely understood until you put his peripherals into proper context with his peers.

    Of the 155 relief pitchers that qualify (minimum 26.2 IP) in 2012, Ondrusek ranks:

    #144 of 155 in fWAR (-.03)
    #138 of 155 in K/9 (5.68)
    #143 of 155 in BB/9 (5.40)
    #141 of 155 in FIP (4.93)
    #152 of 155 in xFIP (5.22)

    NL only (out of 80 relief pitchers with at least 26.2 IP):

    #72 of 80 in fWAR (-.03)
    #74 of 80 in K/9 (5.68)
    #72 of 80 in BB/9 (5.40)
    #71 of 80 in FIP (4.93)
    #77 of 80 in xFIP (5.22)

    And this is not some strange fluke that is only occurring in 2012. Let's look at 2011.


    In 2011, of the 134 relief pitchers that qualify (minimum 48.2 IP), Ondrusek ranked:

    #120 of 134 in fWAR (-.02)
    #113 of 134 in K/9 (6.02)
    #104 of 134 in BB/9 (4.11)
    #119 of 134 in FIP (4.43)
    #118 of 134 in xFIP (4.49)

    Now NL only in 2011, out of 71 relief pitchers that qualify:

    #64 of 71 in fWAR (-.02)
    #61 of 71 in K/9 (6.02)
    #54 of 71 in BB/9 (4.11)
    #66 of 71 in FIP (4.43)
    #66 of 71 in xFIP (4.49)

    Since 2010, there have been 66 NL relief pitchers with at least 100 IP. Within that 66, he ranks:


    #63 of 66 in fWAR (-.05)
    #63 of 66 in K/9 (5.93)
    #52 of 66 in BB/9 (3.98)
    #62 of 66 in FIP (4.49)
    #63 of 66 in xFIP (4.52)


    So I guess if one wants to argue with the definition of struggling, fine. Be my guest. If you don't define struggling as being in the bottom 5-10% in nearly every category and being sub-replacement level, then sure, I guess he's not struggling according to that definition.
    Wow, I had no idea about this. I was (falsely) considering Ondrusek to be a solid option out of the pen. I'll show myself out.

  8. #22
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Hoover?

    I wouldn't give up on Logan - his problems are more mechanical than anything. Maybe some time in AAA to work on that is needed.

    Reading back to Buckeyes post, though, I too did not realize how bad Logan had been so edit this to maybe trade him if possible
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 07-17-2012 at 11:08 PM.


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