Votto expected to be out 3-4 weeks after knee surgery

[GAC]

I had my 16 yr old son, who has aspirations of entering the medical profession, to read through this thread.

He's decided to become a plumber instead.

I talked with my cousin's husband, who is an orthopedic surgeon (sports medicine) located in Dayton. He simply shakes his head and laughs at everyone second guessing, coming up with conspiracy theories, and calling the Red's medical staff a bunch of hacks, over this Votto situation.

He basically stated that it's funny that people who aren't even trained/knowledgeable in the field of sports medicine want to somehow second-guess those that are. It's understandable that some are upset because they're losing their best player for a few weeks (he's bummed big time); but they simply don't know what they are talking about. But Hey! Blame that hack doctor! I don't tell you how to do your job, and probably because I don't know how. So don't tell me how to do mine.

I was at my chiropractor's yesterday. He's a HUGE Reds fan, and originally from Cincy. And he said the same thing my cousin's husband said.....

During the initial examination they probably noticed some MILD swelling in that area. But unless it was a really severe tear, and the symptoms, as well as Votto's input, didn't attest to that, then a minuscule tear, due to that swelling, probably wouldn't have shown up on an MRI. So they took the right approach in rest and rehabilitation FIRST.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...s_cin&c_id=cin

"I was very optimistic," Votto said. "I was hoping it was just something muscular

And guess what? It appeared to be working, and maybe was only a muscular bruise....

"I was feeling great," Votto said. "Those four days off at the All-Star Game and then coming back, I was almost 85-90 percent running.

Then came that Sunday game vs the Cards....

Then all of a sudden, it started swelling up and it felt like I tweaked something. It felt like it felt in San Francisco. That's when I knew it was time to go in and talk some more to them

So then the say "Ok. We need to do an MRI and see what's going on."

it turned out to be a small structural thing.

Second-guessing is fine (I guess). But calling these trained physicians inept or hacks is ridiculous IMO.

[MikeS21]

I agree 100% with you GAC. Contrary to popular belief, these doctors have a clue.

[traderumor]

I had my 16 yr old son, who has aspirations of entering the medical profession, to read through this thread.

He's decided to become a plumber instead.

I talked with my cousin's husband, who is an orthopedic surgeon (sports medicine) located in Dayton. He simply shakes his head and laughs at everyone second guessing, coming up with conspiracy theories, and calling the Red's medical staff a bunch of hacks, over this Votto situation.

He basically stated that it's funny that people who aren't even trained/knowledgeable in the field of sports medicine want to somehow second-guess those that are. It's understandable that some are upset because they're losing their best player for a few weeks (he's bummed big time); but they simply don't know what they are talking about. But Hey! Blame that hack doctor! I don't tell you how to do your job, and probably because I don't know how. So don't tell me how to do mine.

I was at my chiropractor's yesterday. He's a HUGE Reds fan, and originally from Cincy. And he said the same thing my cousin's husband said.....

During the initial examination they probably noticed some MILD swelling in that area. But unless it was a really severe tear, and the symptoms, as well as Votto's input, didn't attest to that, then a minuscule tear, due to that swelling, probably wouldn't have shown up on an MRI. So they took the right approach in rest and rehabilitation FIRST.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...s_cin&c_id=cin



And guess what? It appeared to be working, and maybe was only a muscular bruise....



Then came that Sunday game vs the Cards....



So then the say "Ok. We need to do an MRI and see what's going on."



Second-guessing is fine (I guess). But calling these trained physicians inept or hacks is ridiculous IMO.

You know, I do my share of second guessing docs, but then these are generalists at the local county hospital or some general family practicioners. Our family doc is a credit to his field, though. He is humble, listens, and is uncannily accurate.

I knew that folks would be doing some great hindsight analysis, have a 10 year anniversary coming up on this board, so I know how these things go. The human body is incredibly complex and even the best diagnostic equipment money can buy cannot always see what is going on in there until its too late. It seems to me like this is similar to the Berkman situation. There may have been two injuries here. One started it, the second finished it.

Shouldn't we be amazed that this break down is only 3-4 weeks because of medical advancements and not out for the season and butchering the knee and irreparably taking away function of the knee for a minor injury like the good ole days?

[Will M]

Bryce Harper fouled a ball off of his ankle today. He left the game. An MRI showed a bone contusion but no fracture. Yep. The Nationals paid the $1000 (or thereabouts) cost of an MRI right away to see what was wrong with their young potential superstar. I'd like to see this type of attitude with the Reds.

If you buy Dom Perignon don't buy paper cups to drink it out of.

[dougdirt]

Bryce Harper fouled a ball off of his ankle today. He left the game. An MRI showed a bone contusion but no fracture. Yep. The Nationals paid the $1000 (or thereabouts) cost of an MRI right away to see what was wrong with their young potential superstar. I'd like to see this type of attitude with the Reds.

If you buy Dom Perignon don't buy paper cups to drink it out of.

Did Harper say 'I think it might be broken'? Did Votto say he was fine? Without the answer to those questions, you can't sit there and try to put blame on the Reds .

[PuffyPig]

Did Harper say 'I think it might be broken'? Did Votto say he was fine? Without the answer to those questions, you can't sit there and try to put blame on the Reds .

Boom!!!!

[_Sir_Charles_]

Now, see...what I get out of this is simple...Harper's a wuss. :O)

[Will M]

Did Harper say 'I think it might be broken'? Did Votto say he was fine? Without the answer to those questions, you can't sit there and try to put blame on the Reds .

I am not picking on the Reds for this one issue. It seems to me that the Reds have a history (at least in the last few years) of not going through a thorough process to get the correct diagnosis when players get hurt. The Nationals could have just gotten some plain films (routine x rays) to rule out a fracture. Yet they went beyond that & got an MRI to get a better diagnosis.
I'd like to see this attitude from the Reds.

[dougdirt]

I am not picking on the Reds for this one issue. It seems to me that the Reds have a history (at least in the last few years) of not going through a thorough process to get the correct diagnosis when players get hurt. The Nationals could have just gotten some plain films (routine x rays) to rule out a fracture. Yet they went beyond that & got an MRI to get a better diagnosis.
I'd like to see this attitude from the Reds.

Even if the player says he is fine?

[kaldaniels]

Bryce Harper fouled a ball off of his ankle today. He left the game. An MRI showed a bone contusion but no fracture. Yep. The Nationals paid the $1000 (or thereabouts) cost of an MRI right away to see what was wrong with their young potential superstar. I'd like to see this type of attitude with the Reds.

If you buy Dom Perignon don't buy paper cups to drink it out of.

Maybe I'm inferring something that isn't there, but do you think the cost of an MRI limits the number of MRIs the Reds order?

[VR]

I went to a specialist in Portland when I had knee issues. It was discovered that I had a tear in my meniscus. The pain I was feeling was only the flap causing discomfort. He left it alone for a few weeks until I could judge the pain, and said the danger of further injury was very mild, and would be more of discomfort, not debilitating further damage. Mine was pretty typical, and all he did was a snip in arthro surgery of the flap.

I was never in need of crutches, and the pain afterwards was mostly from the surgery. I resumed sports activities in 3 weeks with no therapy. It ached for about 8 months, but after that the pain or any side effects completely dissipated.

If it's only his meniscus.....we'll see him in about 3 weeks.

[Tom Servo]

Joey Who?

[traderumor]

I am not picking on the Reds for this one issue. It seems to me that the Reds have a history (at least in the last few years) of not going through a thorough process to get the correct diagnosis when players get hurt. The Nationals could have just gotten some plain films (routine x rays) to rule out a fracture. Yet they went beyond that & got an MRI to get a better diagnosis.
I'd like to see this attitude from the Reds.

You imply that is a financial decision. Does that really make sense, that the Reds delay mri's for cost containment? That seems unlikely to me.

[Will M]

Maybe I'm inferring something that isn't there, but do you think the cost of an MRI limits the number of MRIs the Reds order?

You imply that is a financial decision. Does that really make sense, that the Reds delay mri's for cost containment? That seems unlikely to me.

I don't know why the Reds don't seem to order as many MRIs as other teams do. I'm not implying thats its a financial decision. IMO it would be pretty dumb if it was. (although a certain Reds owner did try to resell extra donuts left over after a meeting. this despite handing out million dollar deals to players). My Dom Perignon analogy is that the Reds pay literally millions of dollars for players. Then they seem asleep at the switch when guys get hurt. Between the trainers, the orthopedist & modern imaging techniques teams should be able to make the right diagnosis quickly IF they have the system in place to do so.

Maybe the team needs to have protocols in place. If you look hurt you see the trainer. If he wants you to see the doc then you see the doc. If he has any doubts about the diagnosis you get the MRI. the player doesn't get a say. the Reds medical staff overrules the player if they feel the next step needs to be taken.

[kaldaniels]

I don't know why the Reds don't seem to order as many MRIs as other teams do. I'm not implying thats its a financial decision. IMO it would be pretty dumb if it was. (although a certain Reds owner did try to resell extra donuts left over after a meeting. this despite handing out million dollar deals to players). My Dom Perignon analogy is that the Reds pay literally millions of dollars for players. Then they seem asleep at the switch when guys get hurt. Between the trainers, the orthopedist & modern imaging techniques teams should be able to make the right diagnosis quickly IF they have the system in place to do so.

Maybe the team needs to have protocols in place. If you look hurt you see the trainer. If he wants you to see the doc then you see the doc. If he has any doubts about the diagnosis you get the MRI. the player doesn't get a say. the Reds medical staff overrules the player if they feel the next step needs to be taken.

I agree with the above analogy. I think perhaps your initial post did lend to the fact finances were involved. However if you say that is not the case I completely accept that.

It's been brought up somewhere else - apparently the labor agreement states a player must consent to an MRI...so while it would be nice, an across the board policy may not be feasible.