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Thread: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

  1. #181
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Baker pulling Mr. Arredondo, likely for Logan Ondrusek.

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  3. #182
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Stubbs .222/.293/.367
    Cozart .240/.287/.369
    Bruce .244/.319/.491
    Ludwick .238/.310/.498
    Rolen .199/.267/.308

    How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate. Even in 1982, every starting Red had an OBP of over .300 except Paul Householder.
    Last edited by WVRedsFan; 07-18-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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  4. #183
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Stubbs .222/.293/.367
    Cozart .240/.287/.369
    Bruce .244/.319/.491
    Ludwick .238/.310/.498
    Rolen .199/.267/.308

    How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate.
    2 of those things are not like the other things.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  5. #184
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Stubbs .222/.293/.367
    Cozart .240/.287/.369
    Bruce .244/.319/.491
    Ludwick .238/.310/.498
    Rolen .199/.267/.308

    How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate.
    Two of those guys have OPS' over .800.

  6. #185
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Two of those guys have OPS' over .800.
    Probably home run driven.
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  7. #186
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    alright here comes the big Reds comeback
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  8. #187
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Isn't the current SABR wisdom that OBP is about three times as important as SLG in the RC calculation? I certainly would take a .390/.410 guy over the .310/.490 types we've got.

  9. #188
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Probably home run driven.
    Homeruns are worthless?


    They have had flaws this season, no question, but look around the league.... Bruce and Ludwick have not been useless offensively this season. If they are in our worst 5 offensive players than we have a great offense.

    Unfortunately they are not.

  10. #189
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    Isn't the current SABR wisdom that OBP is about three times as important as SLG in the OPS calculation? I certainly would take a .390/.410 guy over the .310/.490 types we've got.
    Those guys hardly exist anymore! I wish we did too, but there are so many pitchers around right now with good command that huge OBP guys are very difficult to find.

  11. #190
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    There went the big Reds comeback. We're bad again. Hopefully they can salvage the series with a win tomorrow.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  12. #191
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    There are literally 14 guys in MLB with a .390 OBP.

    This isn't 2000 anymore.

  13. #192
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Those guys hardly exist anymore! I wish we did too, but there are so many pitchers around right now with good command that huge OBP guys are very difficult to find.
    True.

    Bottom line, though, we've got five regulars (Phillips, Cozart, Stubbs, Ludwick, Bruce) who fit the high-SLG, low-OBP profile, plus a guy in Rolen that does neither well at this stage. Long-term, Bruce should be a solid OBP and SLG guy, but I suspect Frazier regresses to the first category.

    I just can't see that offense being successful in the long run, as last year showed and this year is confirming. The 2010 offense was very strong but had a full-strength Rolen (who murdered mistakes like very few hitters I've ever seen) and a bit more diversity in attack.

    [Edit: Geeh, obviously Frazier and Rolen aren't regulars at the same time when at full strength, but both occupy a ton of PAs.]
    Last edited by dsmith421; 07-18-2012 at 10:06 PM.

  14. #193
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Homeruns are worthless?


    They have had flaws this season, no question, but look around the league.... Bruce and Ludwick have not been useless offensively this season. If they are in our worst 5 offensive players than we have a great offense.

    Unfortunately they are not.
    No, but they don't come often and they inflate slugging percentages. I love Ludwig, and he's hitting better, but the homeruns inflate. Same with Jay. Take away those (I know, that takes away runs) and these guys are having mediocre years. And batting Stubbs and Cozart anywhere the top of the order is almost criminal.
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  15. #194
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    I completely agree, these guys have not been special offensive players at all. But in the current day and age it's pretty passable.

    The dark holes are the real problem is all I'm saying.

  16. #195
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    Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I completely agree, these guys have not been special offensive players at all. But in the current day and age it's pretty passable.

    The dark holes are the real problem is all I'm saying.
    The bigger point, which I think has been proven this year, is that good pitching and defense can keep any team in the mix, regardless of offense. We've had two stinkers the last three days, but that's been the exception this year.


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