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Thread: Aroldis Chapman and history

  1. #31
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Huh? I said I wanted Chapman as a starter. I was explaining the REDS' point of view. Hilarious that (very few) Reds fans have issues with reading comprehension. It was clear the Reds felt they had four starting spots locked up going into spring training. I don't agree with it, but it's a fact.

    Also, who said anything about "all five starters from last year returned"? Are you forgetting about the departure of one Edinson Volquez and the arrival of Mat Latos?
    First, you said there "was no spot in the rotation for Chapman coming out of spring training." So, my guess is that reading comprehension isn't my problem at all. Apparently you have trouble remembering what you wrote. Chapman outpitched everyone except Cueto in spring training. I understand why the Reds have Chapman closing; however, I am under the impression that sometimes you do what's best in the long run instead of thinking only short term. Chapman has the potential to be an elite starting pitcher and time is wasting with him in his current role. Besides, 160 innings of Chapman would certainly be more beneficial than 60 to the team. Closers can come in all shapes and sizes, you don't need to waste Chapman in that role. IMHO

    Lastly, I have never found insulting other posters to be the best course of action in forum interaction. We all have opinions and just because one is sure their's is correct does not make it fact. But, if that is how you intend to interact with me, I can certainly return the favor going forward.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I know Chapman fires up the crowd in the 9th. I know its good PR. But every save, every strikeout to end the game, puts one more nail in the coffin of what could have been.
    Wow. Life of the party.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  4. #33
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Wow. Life of the party.
    No doubt

    What could have been.... Excuse me while I admire and wonder at what is

    What could have been still lingers there, but at 15 games above .500 it seems like it might be a lot less impressive than what we are getting

  5. #34
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Some fun milestones for Chapman after striking out the side again tonight.

    • His K/9 just eclipsed 17, sitting at a tidy 17.16
    • Over half the batters that have stepped into the box against Chapman this year have struck out. Sitting at 50.28% K/PA


    It ceases to be a baseball game when Chapman takes the mound. The ninth inning is just a comedic victory lap where we get to watch mortals like Matt Downs have a hand against one of the most dominant raw talents ever. I love it.

  6. #35
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Some fun milestones for Chapman after striking out the side again tonight.

    • His K/9 just eclipsed 17, sitting at a tidy 17.16
    • Over half the batters that have stepped into the box against Chapman this year have struck out. Sitting at 50.28% K/PA


    It ceases to be a baseball game when Chapman takes the mound. The ninth inning is just a comedic victory lap where we get to watch mortals like Matt Downs have a hand against one of the most dominant raw talents ever. I love it.
    My roommate and a friend of mine watched the 9th inning with me, neither of them are big baseball fans. They were laughing. Out loud. Even those that have no perspective as to what a normal pitcher looks like were absolutely amazed by him.

  7. #36
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Unless something comes up that the FO cannot ignore (e.g. A great trade opportunity, an injury, etc), I'm not sure that we will ever see this guy start a game for Cincy. And I'm not sure that I care. He and the rest of the pen is the attribute which separates Cincy from other teams. Don't mess with a good thing. He may be able to be a force as a starter. He is dominant as a closer.

  8. #37
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Some fun milestones for Chapman after striking out the side again tonight.

    • His K/9 just eclipsed 17, sitting at a tidy 17.16
    • Over half the batters that have stepped into the box against Chapman this year have struck out. Sitting at 50.28% K/PA


    It ceases to be a baseball game when Chapman takes the mound. The ninth inning is just a comedic victory lap where we get to watch mortals like Matt Downs have a hand against one of the most dominant raw talents ever. I love it.
    As good as the rotation has been, how can you ever consider giving this up? In a critical game, no reason not to run him out there for 2 innings as well. Now, the risk is that he could do this for 6 or 7 innings of a playoff game twice in a series as a starter rather than 1-2 innings 3 or 4 games as a closer.

    Moving him to the rotation right now, as many have suggested, would maybe be the biggest and gutsiest move in the history of sports, but the downside would be minimal and the upside would be the potential to have an ace even better than Cueto to take the mound in a playoff Game 1. I wouldn't have the guts to move him, maybe ever.

  9. #38
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Unless something comes up that the FO cannot ignore (e.g. A great trade opportunity, an injury, etc), I'm not sure that we will ever see this guy start a game for Cincy. And I'm not sure that I care. He and the rest of the pen is the attribute which separates Cincy from other teams. Don't mess with a good thing. He may be able to be a force as a starter. He is dominant as a closer.
    I would rather not wonder if we wasted Justin Verlander so he could be Craig Kimbrel (who might be BETTER than Chapman).

  10. #39
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I would rather not wonder if we wasted Justin Verlander so he could be Craig Kimbrel (who might be BETTER than Chapman).
    It's tough to screw with something working so well. Especially when there isn't a need to make the move. If the team is winning the way they are, I won't wonder about what could be all that much.

  11. #40
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It's tough to screw with something working so well. Especially when there isn't a need to make the move. If the team is winning the way they are, I won't wonder about what could be all that much.
    I am not saying do it now. But if you have the potential to add a Justin Verlander type of pitcher to your team, you do it, regardless of how well Mike Leake or Bronson Arroyo are pitching.

  12. #41
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am not saying do it now. But if you have the potential to add a Justin Verlander type of pitcher to your team, you do it, regardless of how well Mike Leake or Bronson Arroyo are pitching.
    I know what you are saying, however I don't think it is that easy. It is difficult to trade away a "guaranteed" weapon like Aroldis and a starter for a shot at Verlander. The other thing to think about is how he would handle the transition, especially if he were to fail. How long do you give him? What is the break even point that would be considered? If he gives you a 3.50 ERA, is that good enough? What if the pen starts to struggle?

  13. #42
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Check out the Brewers games from the last two nights. Then tell me Chapman in the pen is a bad idea for this season. I'll worry about next year after we win the world series. Enjoy the success the team is having. We have waited a long time for it. The lost decade is over, ownership really does care, and fans are responding. Go Reds.



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  14. #43
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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  15. #44
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I would rather not wonder if we wasted Justin Verlander so he could be Craig Kimbrel (who might be BETTER than Chapman).
    While I definitely understand the idea that starters are more valuable than closers in general, I think that obscures the value that a top end closer brings to a team IMO.
    Essentially,
    Because it is hard to seperate the fourth best closer from the 15th best closer, the 100th best starting pitcher in the majors is probably worth more than the 4th best closer.

    But a top 3 closer, those are worth their weight in gold in my opinion, and I think Chapman is that.

    I understand that he could be a top starting pitcher as well, and a top starting pitcher is worth more than a top closer, but bird in hand etc etc etc.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  16. #45
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis Chapman and history

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I know what you are saying, however I don't think it is that easy. It is difficult to trade away a "guaranteed" weapon like Aroldis and a starter for a shot at Verlander. The other thing to think about is how he would handle the transition, especially if he were to fail. How long do you give him? What is the break even point that would be considered? If he gives you a 3.50 ERA, is that good enough? What if the pen starts to struggle?
    The thing is, you can undo the "trade" at any time. You don't lose "Aroldis Chapman, dominant closer" unless you gain a more valuable starter in return. Sure, there's some point at which a change back would make sense. But to not take the shot seems unnecessarily conservative.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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