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Thread: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

  1. #1
    Worth The Wait
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    Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    I have always judged the performance of an athlete on a very simple criteria: Do I beleive they are as good as they can reasonably be?

    Yes, everyone is always capable of improving themselves in any arena... But when I look at a guy like Brandon Phillips I see a guy who at the end of 162 game season has done as well and has gotten as much out of what he has as can be reasonably expected. I feel that way about most of the current Reds.

    Jay Bruce is not one of them. It doesn't matter how good someone is or how much they produce, if I feel they are capable of much more, I will be critical.

    That is where I stood with Dunn. I was critical. People blasted me for it and threw his numbers at me. But they misunderstood--- I wasn't saying he wasn't good or was overrated (I actually still beleive him to be a historically underappreciated player), I just felt there was more there for him.

    I am just a fan on my couch in Oklahoma. I have no idea how hard a guy, how focused he is, or how much he cares. All I can do is watch and express what my guy (and often my eyes) tell me, while freely acknowledging I could be wrong. With Dunn, it never made any sense to me that such a gifted athlete could misplace so many (often routine) fly balls. I also felt he could have been in better physical condition. The guy always played, so I give him that, but I also felt that Dunn was good enough to cut back on his K's while still maintaining his power and OBP.

    It's the old "tough love" thing I guess. My first football coach told me that the only time I should be worried is when he STOPS yelling at me-- that's when he knows he's gotten all he can and there is no point in asking me to dig deeper. Sure enough, a couple years in, the yelling stopped, and my I started riding the bench quite a bit.

    I liked Adam Dunn, both as a player and personally, but I do feel that he could have been a better player than he was.

    Jay Bruce now fills that role for me. He is good. He is a dangerous hitter and he seems like a really nice guy. He is not "the problem" with the Reds at all.... But he could be better. Entirely too many prolonged slumps and mental errors. He is a very good defensive RF, but will occasionally make head-scratching errors. And his base running blunder in the 9th inning today is a total sign of lacking full concentration/awareness.

    And some of his AB's are just abysmal.

    Perhaps I'm too harsh. Maybe I overrate him and what he is capable of? That's certainly a possibility.

    But of all the current Reds, I find Bruce to be the most frustrating. Really reminds me about how I felt about Dunn.

    Always felt fans missed the boat when anyalizing their teams. It isn't always upgrading the weakest link. Wilson Valdez ultimately isn't the problem because he is a 25th man and even the best 25th man won't get you much farther down the road. The better chance to improve comes in the form of th stellar athlete with mucho power and a cannon arm.

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  3. #2
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    Jay frustrates me too. I don't know why he doesn't improve to be the player we want him to be. He has all the tools and the numbers don't lie. He's good, but could be a monster. Today's two questionable pays seemed to be lack of concentration. Not paying attention. Same with some of hs AB's. Only jay can change that.
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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    So we need to get Bruce's chair out of the locker room?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Member dman's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Jay frustrates me too. I don't know why he doesn't improve to be the player we want him to be. He has all the tools and the numbers don't lie. He's good, but could be a monster. Today's two questionable pays seemed to be lack of concentration. Not paying attention. Same with some of hs AB's. Only jay can change that.
    I agree as well, mainly because all of the promise that Jay has shown, and all of us knowing what he is capable of. It's been discussed in detail on here, but Jacoby just doesn't cut it as a hitting coach, and I feel that Jay could benefit from a competent hitting coach working with him.

    I'm also becoming disillusioned with Drew Stubbs. There's a lot of promise there that isn't being played to it's full potential. If the Reds were in a better situation with outfielders, I feel Stubbs could benefit from a stint back down to the minors to polish up some things in his game.

    Really don't know how they can approach the Bruce situation.... I guess they're going to let him claw his way out of the hole on his own.

  6. #5
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    The defensive issues this year are weird. Can't remember ever seeing that from him before this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    If Jay Bruce could be what Dunn was with the bat we'd ok with that.

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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    Quote Originally Posted by dman View Post
    I agree as well, mainly because all of the promise that Jay has shown, and all of us knowing what he is capable of. It's been discussed in detail on here, but Jacoby just doesn't cut it as a hitting coach, and I feel that Jay could benefit from a competent hitting coach working with him.

    I'm also becoming disillusioned with Drew Stubbs. There's a lot of promise there that isn't being played to it's full potential. If the Reds were in a better situation with outfielders, I feel Stubbs could benefit from a stint back down to the minors to polish up some things in his game.

    Really don't know how they can approach the Bruce situation.... I guess they're going to let him claw his way out of the hole on his own.
    Stubbs is the other guy on the team where this applies for me, but I'm so disillusioned with him that I've sort of given up. Bruce and Stubbs... Can't really think of anyone else who frustrates me for those reasons.

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    Member dman's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    If Jay Bruce could be what Dunn was with the bat we'd ok with that.
    Bruce may have some issues going on right now, but I'll take his .243 Batting Average and 84Ks over Adam Dunn's 28 dingers right now, seeing that Dunn is batting .202 with 143 Ks

    However, after I read your post again, the key word there being what Dun "was" with the bat..... Gotcha now... My bad.
    Last edited by dman; 07-22-2012 at 11:52 PM.

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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    And looking at their stats a little closer, the only thing really separating Dunn's numbers from Bruce's numbers is 9 HRs and 6 RBIs.... Their OPS, SLG, and OBP are fairly comparable.... Yeah, I can tolerate Bruce much easier than I could tolerate Dunn.

  11. #10
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    The equation is fairly simple.

    Jay Bruce = Homer Bailey.

    He is a prospect who was a top pick and fans have followed through the minors. Great expectations have driven who we thought they would be. There have been flashes of brilliance and the talent is there but the results have been inconsistent. They are both young and should continue to make adjustments to break out into elite or near elite players. Bailey may be a bit further along at the moment but they are both still young.

  12. #11
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    The defensive issues this year are weird. Can't remember ever seeing that from him before this year.
    There were some defensive issues last year as well.

  13. #12
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    Great post Ed. He frustrates me as well, but mainly because he was advertised as a Larry Walker-type #3 hitter. He batted over .300 in the minors. Now he struggles to bat .250.

    I actually put a lot of the blame on the hitting coach though. I believe Bruce works hard to improve, but he's getting very poor instruction. Bruce has flaws in his batting stance and a hole in his swing. I find it hard to believe a competent hitting coach wouldn't have fixed them by now.
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin View Post
    I have always judged the performance of an athlete on a very simple criteria: Do I beleive they are as good as they can reasonably be?

    Yes, everyone is always capable of improving themselves in any arena... But when I look at a guy like Brandon Phillips I see a guy who at the end of 162 game season has done as well and has gotten as much out of what he has as can be reasonably expected. I feel that way about most of the current Reds.

    Jay Bruce is not one of them. It doesn't matter how good someone is or how much they produce, if I feel they are capable of much more, I will be critical.

    That is where I stood with Dunn. I was critical. People blasted me for it and threw his numbers at me. But they misunderstood--- I wasn't saying he wasn't good or was overrated (I actually still beleive him to be a historically underappreciated player), I just felt there was more there for him.

    I am just a fan on my couch in Oklahoma. I have no idea how hard a guy, how focused he is, or how much he cares. All I can do is watch and express what my guy (and often my eyes) tell me, while freely acknowledging I could be wrong. With Dunn, it never made any sense to me that such a gifted athlete could misplace so many (often routine) fly balls. I also felt he could have been in better physical condition. The guy always played, so I give him that, but I also felt that Dunn was good enough to cut back on his K's while still maintaining his power and OBP.

    It's the old "tough love" thing I guess. My first football coach told me that the only time I should be worried is when he STOPS yelling at me-- that's when he knows he's gotten all he can and there is no point in asking me to dig deeper. Sure enough, a couple years in, the yelling stopped, and my I started riding the bench quite a bit.

    I liked Adam Dunn, both as a player and personally, but I do feel that he could have been a better player than he was.

    Jay Bruce now fills that role for me. He is good. He is a dangerous hitter and he seems like a really nice guy. He is not "the problem" with the Reds at all.... But he could be better. Entirely too many prolonged slumps and mental errors. He is a very good defensive RF, but will occasionally make head-scratching errors. And his base running blunder in the 9th inning today is a total sign of lacking full concentration/awareness.

    And some of his AB's are just abysmal.

    Perhaps I'm too harsh. Maybe I overrate him and what he is capable of? That's certainly a possibility.

    But of all the current Reds, I find Bruce to be the most frustrating. Really reminds me about how I felt about Dunn.

    Always felt fans missed the boat when anyalizing their teams. It isn't always upgrading the weakest link. Wilson Valdez ultimately isn't the problem because he is a 25th man and even the best 25th man won't get you much farther down the road. The better chance to improve comes in the form of th stellar athlete with mucho power and a cannon arm.
    I commend your bravery for speaking your thoughts.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  15. #14
    Have Faith In Dusty DGullett35's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    I like Jay Bruce however I find myself more and more thinking hes going to fail when hes put in an RBI situation or an at-bat where a big hit is needed. I hope hes on a hot streak if we make the playoffs because if hes not it could get brutal. If he goes 0fer in a playoff series Im gonna want to see what everyone says about the guy. It really could get bad IMO
    "Losing feels worse than winning feels good." -Vin Scully

  16. #15
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    Re: Jay Bruce is the new Adam Dunn for me

    I was going to go as far as suggesting Bruce in a trade, but feared for my life.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


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