Home Grown Team

[redsmetz]

Sigh.

It was a tangential discussion, one that focused on Cincinnati's lack of pitching acumen or development before the emergence of Cueto, Leake, Bailey, and Chapman.

It had little to do with any other conversation, but was (I thought) an interesting side-note to it.

It wasn't meant as some sort of castigation of the pitchers currently in the Red pipeline or pitching in the major leagues.

I understand now what you were getting at, but didn't come off like that, which is fine (hindsight is 20/20, as they say). It diminished the present club's make-up and the team's success by just adding in those players who are presently in the ML's albeit most with other clubs, long after they've sailed from our shores, if you will. Then we all got to smack you around a bit.

[oregonred]

This is one of the best things about this team that makes it fun to watch. Plus management has been shrewd in using the home grown talent to gain other important pieces.

Most systems spawn a Votto type player about once every 25 years. So that alone makes the Reds development over the past 5-6 seasons an overwhelming success.

[Chip R]

The 1965 Reds were loaded with home grown talent. The starting lineup included future Hall of Famer outfielder Frank Robinson, Hall of Famer but for you know what second baseman Pete Rose, and all stars/Gold Glovers catcher Johnny Edwards and shortstop Leo Cardneas, all orginally signed and developed by the Reds.
The lineup also had outfielder Tommy Harper, a terrific all around talent who who later be an all star after leaving the Reds and who scored 126 runs for the '65 Reds.
The lineup further had near Hall of Fame outfielder Vada Pinson.
The members of the regular lineup not developed by the Reds were Deron Johnson and Gordy Coleman, neither of whom were stars until they arrived in Cincinnati.
Reserves included future Hall of Famer Tony Perez, catcher Don Pavletich (his average/OBP/slugging line that season was .319/.394/.513), and, in brief roles, future NL rookie of the year Tommy Helms, slugger Lee May, and future Mets star Art Shamsky-all home grown.
The starting pitching staff was almost all home grown, starting with 20 game winners Sammy Ellis and Jim Maloney, former ace Jim O'Toole (who sadly collapsed as a pitcher in '65), and a fellow named Nuxhall.
The bullpen also had home grown talent in Billy McCool and Teddy Davidson.

It's much more amazing to have as many home-grown players on the roster these days than it was then. Now there are exponentially larger salaries combined with arbitration, free agency and 6-year minor league free agency.

[savafan]

I feel as though the last significant starting pitcher developed by the Reds prior to the guys mentioned, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Chapman, was Tom Browning in 1985. This is just my opinion, but that's quite a long period of time between developing starters.

[George Anderson]

I feel as though the last significant starting pitcher developed by the Reds prior to the guys mentioned, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Chapman, was Tom Browning in 1985. This is just my opinion, but that's quite a long period of time between developing starters.

Browning was indeed the last quality starter developed. I can't think who would be second it was that bad.

[dsmith421]

Browning was indeed the last quality starter developed. I can't think who would be second it was that bad.

Brett Tomko. I looked.

Yikes.

[Vottomatic]

Next year with Rolen gone, other than BP......when Cueto, Bailey, or Leake pitches and Mez catches, the entire infield other than 2nd base will be home grown with Frazier at 3B. Shoot, even the OF will be except for LF if Stubbs or Heisey is in CF.

[traderumor]

I think it is a little bit too strict definition to not consider Brandon Phillips homegrown. He had been through two organizations where he failed to develop, then he comes to the Reds and develops at the major league level at a young age. I consider him to fit the concept of "homegrown."

[Vottomatic]

I don't consider BP part of the discussion of home grown.

I do consider BP a Red through and through and look forward to him being in the Reds HOF some day. So glad we traded for him.

[traderumor]

I don't consider BP part of the discussion of home grown.

I do consider BP a Red through and through and look forward to him being in the Reds HOF some day. So glad we traded for him.

I'm challenging the definition, think "homegrown = drafted by Reds" is unnecessarily limiting to the point being made in this thread. In a case like Phillips, its like saying I didn't raise the flowers in my garden because I bought them from Lowes.

[Vottomatic]

I'm challenging the definition, think "homegrown = drafted by Reds" is unnecessarily limiting to the point being made in this thread. In a case like Phillips, its like saying I didn't raise the flowers in my garden because I bought them from Lowes.

I tend to view it another way. We traded our neighbor tomatoes for their beautiful flowers. Cleveland got tomatoes and we got BP.

[Big Klu]

Next year with Rolen gone, other than BP......when Cueto, Bailey, or Leake pitches and Mez catches, the entire infield other than 2nd base will be home grown with Frazier at 3B. Shoot, even the OF will be except for LF if Stubbs or Heisey is in CF.

Hanigan is also homegrown, so it doesn't matter who is catching.

[kaldaniels]

I'm challenging the definition, think "homegrown = drafted by Reds" is unnecessarily limiting to the point being made in this thread. In a case like Phillips, its like saying I didn't raise the flowers in my garden because I bought them from Lowes.

If you want to challenge the baseball meaning of homegrown, that's for another day, another thread.

Phillips is not homegrown.

[RedlegJake]

I can't call BP homegrown. He did a ton of developing with Montreal and then Cleveland - we got a kid ready to blossom, with a chip on his shoulder that they gave up on, with something to prove. He felt accepted and wanted by Cincinnati and exploded into prominence but all the development had been done in other organizations - they were just too locked into his "attitude" that they saw something bad when what there really was just great drive and youthful flippancy they couldn't see past.