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Thread: Didi Gregorius

  1. #31
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    Re: Didi Gregorius

    Right now it seems pretty evident that Didi is going to be a MLB player. He has all the tools and he's developing them. I think the only question is: will he be a good (and cheap) middle infield bench guy or will he be good enough to be a starter?

    If Didi continues progressing on his current track and is able to carry that over to the majors, then he's a starter - that defense/hitting package at SS is too good to make him a part-time player. If he develops to that point (and I think he probably will), then I think the Reds have to trade him or Cozart (a la Larkin vs. Stillwell).

    You generally platoon players who have been given a chance but have shown they have a glaring defect (i.e., they've proven to be pretty bad against either LH or RH pitching). To just platoon two players because one hits from the left side and the other hits from the right side stunts the growth of both. And, in my opinion, is a huge waste of a valuable asset. Remember, the Reds got Danny Jackson for Stillwell (Ted Power and another player from the Royals were in that deal too, but Jackson and Stillwell were the key pieces).
    Last edited by rgslone; 07-28-2012 at 12:04 PM.

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  3. #32
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Didi Gregorius

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Hmmm. BP is making that extension look pretty good with his recent surge. Dude just continues to get it done. I mean, we are talking about probably one of the top 3 or 4 second basemen in mlb aren't we, with BP?
    Brandon Phillips just turned 31 in june and still in his prime though in the latter stages of it. And yeah he is getting it done right now. I'm just looking ahead when in 2 years (2014) he is likely to take a precipitous drop in production at age 33 (or perhaps even sooner) but will have another 3+ seasons (thru 2017) of big money on his deal. Just look at his contemporary Orlando Hudson who was virtually the same player up until sometime in his age 31 season (the same age BP is now) and then started to fall of a cliff, age 32 season was still productive but much less so than years past. Age 33 season O-Dog became a player who between his bat and glove was replacement level at best, since then he has become virtually useless and if this were BP's contract he'd still have 2+ years on it.

    Yeah love Brandon now but when it all comes down just remember you were for the deal, live with his contract keeping us from going forward. When there is a better than average chance we could have had Didi at SS and Cozart @ 2B on the cheap, not lose much on defense if at all and have some offensive upside, not to mention another LH bat in the lineup. The other good news is even if Didi doesn't work out then you still have Hamilton who maybe you just stick at 2B instead. We had too many alternatives to be backed into that deal with Brandon.

    But sorry for getting this conversation off track. If you want to debate BP more just PM me.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  4. #33
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Didi Gregorius

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Brandon Phillips just turned 31 in june and still in his prime though in the latter stages of it. And yeah he is getting it done right now. I'm just looking ahead when in 2 years (2014) he is likely to take a precipitous drop in production at age 33 (or perhaps even sooner) but will have another 3+ seasons (thru 2017) of big money on his deal. Just look at his contemporary Orlando Hudson who was virtually the same player up until sometime in his age 31 season (the same age BP is now) and then started to fall of a cliff, age 32 season was still productive but much less so than years past. Age 33 season O-Dog became a player who between his bat and glove was replacement level at best, since then he has become virtually useless and if this were BP's contract he'd still have 2+ years on it.

    Yeah love Brandon now but when it all comes down just remember you were for the deal, live with his contract keeping us from going forward. When there is a better than average chance we could have had Didi at SS and Cozart @ 2B on the cheap, not lose much on defense if at all and have some offensive upside, not to mention another LH bat in the lineup. The other good news is even if Didi doesn't work out then you still have Hamilton who maybe you just stick at 2B instead. We had too many alternatives to be backed into that deal with Brandon.

    But sorry for getting this conversation off track. If you want to debate BP more just PM me.
    That is the risk with these type of contracts. I've pondered, many times, what will happen in 3 to 5 years when these guys who signed these long term contracts will be on the downside of their careers. Trust me on that one.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  5. #34
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    Re: Didi Gregorius

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Brandon Phillips just turned 31 in june and still in his prime though in the latter stages of it. And yeah he is getting it done right now. I'm just looking ahead when in 2 years (2014) he is likely to take a precipitous drop in production at age 33 (or perhaps even sooner) but will have another 3+ seasons (thru 2017) of big money on his deal. Just look at his contemporary Orlando Hudson who was virtually the same player up until sometime in his age 31 season (the same age BP is now) and then started to fall of a cliff, age 32 season was still productive but much less so than years past. Age 33 season O-Dog became a player who between his bat and glove was replacement level at best, since then he has become virtually useless and if this were BP's contract he'd still have 2+ years on it.

    Yeah love Brandon now but when it all comes down just remember you were for the deal, live with his contract keeping us from going forward. When there is a better than average chance we could have had Didi at SS and Cozart @ 2B on the cheap, not lose much on defense if at all and have some offensive upside, not to mention another LH bat in the lineup. The other good news is even if Didi doesn't work out then you still have Hamilton who maybe you just stick at 2B instead. We had too many alternatives to be backed into that deal with Brandon.

    But sorry for getting this conversation off track. If you want to debate BP more just PM me.
    I understand the concern about BP on the back end of the contract. Of course, that's the same concern one would generally have about any long-term contract.

    I still maintain, however, that putting Cozart or Didi at 2B would be a mistake, maybe even a pretty big mistake. Perhaps HRod or even Hamilton would be good future 2B replacements for BP given their offensive potential, but if that move makes sense then it will rear its head within the next year or two while BP will likely still have good trade value.

  6. #35
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    Re: Didi Gregorius

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    fop isn't saying a nebulous "some time," doug. He's talking about the window of competitiveness over the next three years or so. (And especially next season.) His opinion is that Jocketty and company won't want to trust a rookie SS to possibly outperform a 3.0 WAR player. He'd have to have a monster Spring Training AND Cozart would have to struggle big time for that to happen.
    This is exactly it. If Cozart is a 3 win player this year, that means DiDi would need to be a 4 win player for the Reds to get good value by replacing Cozart. I just don't see that in his rookie season, as good as he's been this year. And because the Reds are in their "window," they can't afford to be patient at The Show with DiDi. But if he continues to kill it at Louisville and forces the Reds hand, I'm all for competition.

    Also, I think Cozart can continue to improve, especially his OBP skills. His career minor league OBP was 50 points higher than it has been at The Show. And his OBP averaged over .342 for his last 3 seasons in the minors.

  7. #36
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Didi Gregorius

    Doug, should any of us be concerned at this point with DiDi's 2.6% walk rate in AAA or can we simply chalk up to small sample size?

  8. #37
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Didi Gregorius

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Doug, should any of us be concerned at this point with DiDi's 2.6% walk rate in AAA or can we simply chalk up to small sample size?
    He isn't much of a walk guy, but small sample size.


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