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Thread: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

  1. #1
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Please continue discussion here.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Frankly, Jay Bruce has become one of the weakest offensive links in the lineup. He's not much better than Stubbs or Heisey at this point, other than his HR's. He's becoming Adam Dunn with better defense. Platoon him.
    From the other thread.

    Not sure that I totally agree with this, but unless he gets it going my guess is that he will be hitting 6th when Votto comes back, or soon there after.

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    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    I don't think Bruce is even close to Adam Dunn when it comes to an offensive player.

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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    From the other thread.

    Not sure that I totally agree with this, but unless he gets it going my guess is that he will be hitting 6th when Votto comes back, or soon there after.
    What has Dusty shown you previously that'd make you think he'd make that switch? Short of a monumental collapse, I don't see Bruce being dropped out of the 5 hole.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

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    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Hasn't Dusty dropped Bruce in the past when he was in a funk? Can't remember for sure, so correct me if my memory is failing me.

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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    With approximately 30 hours to go until the deadline, here are my current priorities accompanied by their perceived cost on a 1-to-4 scale:

    1. Justin Upton (4) - the only guy I would give up Frazier, Bailey or Leake for (not all 3), but I'd prefer to do it in the offseason because we need SP down the stretch.
    2. Shin Soo Choo (3) - If we can get him without giving up Frazier, Hamilton, Stephenson or a major league SP, do it.
    3. David DeJesus (2) - I'd prefer him as a cheaper alternative to Pence. He hits RHP and can play LF or CF and is signed through 2013. Would want to platoon him with Stubbs and Ludwick.
    4. Hunter Pence (3) - Only if Choo is unavailable and the Cubs won't trade DeJesus in the division. Still would have to figure out who plays CF, and he's really expensive next year.
    5. Shane Victorino (2) - Would still do the Ondrusek straight up swap.
    6. Juan Pierre (2) - Only because he would cost way less in talent than Span.
    7. Denard Span (3) - I wouldn't trade a top 3 prospect for a guy who isn't much of an upgrade to Stubbs. We'd be paying in talent for his 3 years of team control which we don't really need.

    I have only included names that are strongly rumored to be on the block, hence no Dexter Fowler.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Looks like you can strike Pence from that list.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Mark it down the Indians will be looking for a haul for Choo. They are already fighting
    An uphill battle of fan perceptiion that they trade away all their quality players and their attendance
    Was bad early in the season even when they were in it. My guess s they will start with a mlb
    With 3 yrs experience as was stated and 2 top ten prospects. Ridiculous I know but they have an asset that they really don't have to trade at ths time and its a sellers market.

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    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    If the Reds did add Choo, I think they'd still need Victorino or someone to cover CF with expertise. Ludwick and Frazier could cover RF and LF vs LHP and Bruce and Choo could vs RHP. It would all be very unlikely though. For the sake of it:

    Vs RHP
    Victorino
    Choo
    Votto
    BP
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Cozart
    C

    vs LHP
    Victorino
    Frazier
    Votto
    BP
    Ludwick
    Rolen
    Cozart
    C

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    With approximately 30 hours to go until the deadline, here are my current priorities accompanied by their perceived cost on a 1-to-4 scale:

    1. Justin Upton (4) - the only guy I would give up Frazier, Bailey or Leake for (not all 3), but I'd prefer to do it in the offseason because we need SP down the stretch.
    2. Shin Soo Choo (3) - If we can get him without giving up Frazier, Hamilton, Stephenson or a major league SP, do it.
    3. David DeJesus (2) - I'd prefer him as a cheaper alternative to Pence. He hits RHP and can play LF or CF and is signed through 2013. Would want to platoon him with Stubbs and Ludwick.
    4. Hunter Pence (3) - Only if Choo is unavailable and the Cubs won't trade DeJesus in the division. Still would have to figure out who plays CF, and he's really expensive next year.
    5. Shane Victorino (2) - Would still do the Ondrusek straight up swap.
    6. Juan Pierre (2) - Only because he would cost way less in talent than Span.
    7. Denard Span (3) - I wouldn't trade a top 3 prospect for a guy who isn't much of an upgrade to Stubbs. We'd be paying in talent for his 3 years of team control which we don't really need.

    I have only included names that are strongly rumored to be on the block, hence no Dexter Fowler.
    Justin Upton isn't getting moved. If by chance he does the haul will be a Mat Latos type haul, one the Reds don't have or can't afford to give up.

    Choo would be my #1 choice right now. However I don't think the Reds will move Stubbs, rather Choo would be a LF with Ludwick heading towards the bench. The Reds built a team around pitching and defense, I don't see them giving up a key cog to that in Stubbs.

    If the price for Victorino is Ondrusek and the Reds are unwilling to take on salary I will be disappointed. Bob opened up his pocket books and the Reds have increased attendance by 10%(?). To balk at that type of deal because of money screams John Allen and Carl Linder.

    Span or Fowler would be very nice I just don't really see the fit looking forward especially at the cost.

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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Looks like you can strike Pence from that list.
    From everything I've seen, Pence is still a Phillie despite last night's report.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Justin Upton isn't getting moved. If by chance he does the haul will be a Mat Latos type haul, one the Reds don't have or can't afford to give up.

    Choo would be my #1 choice right now. However I don't think the Reds will move Stubbs, rather Choo would be a LF with Ludwick heading towards the bench. The Reds built a team around pitching and defense, I don't see them giving up a key cog to that in Stubbs.

    If the price for Victorino is Ondrusek and the Reds are unwilling to take on salary I will be disappointed. Bob opened up his pocket books and the Reds have increased attendance by 10%(?). To balk at that type of deal because of money screams John Allen and Carl Linder.

    Span or Fowler would be very nice I just don't really see the fit looking forward especially at the cost.
    Upton would be a target for the offseason IF we don't acquire an OF that is signed beyond this season (ie Victorino or Pierre). Once you remove him from the list, my top two choices are Choo and DeJesus, in that order.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    With approximately 30 hours to go until the deadline, here are my current priorities accompanied by their perceived cost on a 1-to-4 scale:

    1. Justin Upton (4) - the only guy I would give up Frazier, Bailey or Leake for (not all 3), but I'd prefer to do it in the offseason because we need SP down the stretch.
    2. Shin Soo Choo (3) - If we can get him without giving up Frazier, Hamilton, Stephenson or a major league SP, do it.
    3. David DeJesus (2) - I'd prefer him as a cheaper alternative to Pence. He hits RHP and can play LF or CF and is signed through 2013. Would want to platoon him with Stubbs and Ludwick.
    4. Hunter Pence (3) - Only if Choo is unavailable and the Cubs won't trade DeJesus in the division. Still would have to figure out who plays CF, and he's really expensive next year.
    5. Shane Victorino (2) - Would still do the Ondrusek straight up swap.
    6. Juan Pierre (2) - Only because he would cost way less in talent than Span.
    7. Denard Span (3) - I wouldn't trade a top 3 prospect for a guy who isn't much of an upgrade to Stubbs. We'd be paying in talent for his 3 years of team control which we don't really need.

    I have only included names that are strongly rumored to be on the block, hence no Dexter Fowler.
    I think my list is much different than yours. I think Denard Span is a major upgrade over Stubbs. His OBP is much better and he has done much better defensively per most of the prevalent defensive metrics in the past couple years. Additionally, he is on a very team-friendly deal. I view Denard Span as a core piece for this Reds' team going forward.

    If Pierre or DeJesus could play centerfield as well as Span, I may view them higher than Span due to the fact that they would both make great platoon partners for Stubbs. That being said, even if they could play that plus D, I am not sure if Dusty would correctly implement the platoon in the first place. Therefore, I view Span as a better fit than both DeJesus and Pierre. Even if I could get DeJesus and Pierre for next to nothing and Span cost me Hamilton or Cingrani or Corcino, I think I go with Span at those prices because I do see him as a great fit for the next 3.5 years.

    Furthermore, I think Victorino may be as good as Span, but he is gone after this year. Since I see Span as a core piece, I like him (at the same prospect price) more than Victorino. If it was Victorino for essentially nothing and Span cost me Hamilton or Cingrani or Corcino, I think I would go with Victorino.

    I have stated on the Trade Targets thread that I do not see Pence as a fit due to his inability to play center, his bad contract and lack of real upgrade over Ludwick. I actually am to the point of not wanting Pence at any price unless the Phillies pick up a good chuck of his contract, which I donít see them doing.

    I have stated on the other thread that I do like Choo a lot. If my scouts told me that Choo or Bruce could play center competently, I would want Choo (at the same prospect price) more than Span. However, I feel like the Indians price for Choo will be much higher than the price for Span. I want Choo as an upgrade over Ludwick or as a huge upgrade in center, but I just think they may ask for Hamilton+Corcino+Frazier or something ridiculous, especially if the Pirates are willing to go Marte+Cole/Tallion. Again these packages are complete guesses on my part, but I think Choo will be very expensive.

    As for Upton, I think he would be a great get. His price is probably artificially low due to his low HR/FB % (9.2% in 2012 compared to 13.8% for his career), but he has never played centerfield and I am very happy with both of our corner outfielders for 2012 and 2013. I know Ludwick is on a mutual option, but I think he knows he is a much better hitter in GABP than 90% of the other ballparks out there (as most hitters are), so I believe Ludwick will be back for at least 2013 and probably 2014 as well. Therefore, you will have to move either Upton or Bruce to center. If Upton was the same prospect price as Span, I take Upton. Since Upton will be 2 to 3x more expensive than Span, I honestly see Span as the best fit on this list.

    Give me Span (who I think we may be able to get for Heisey + Lotzkar/Sulbaran + 2 C Level prospects) and then start printing playoff tickets.

  15. #14
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Upton would be a target for the offseason IF we don't acquire an OF that is signed beyond this season (ie Victorino or Pierre). Once you remove him from the list, my top two choices are Choo and DeJesus, in that order.
    With reports Castellini won't add payroll or part with A+ prospects, its hard to believe he'll add a piece that will costs 28 mill over the next two years and require the trade haul that Upton would . They'll find a cheaper option or stand pat.

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    Re: Trade Targets and Trade Rumors Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    With approximately 30 hours to go until the deadline, here are my current priorities accompanied by their perceived cost on a 1-to-4 scale:

    1. Justin Upton (4) - the only guy I would give up Frazier, Bailey or Leake for (not all 3), but I'd prefer to do it in the offseason because we need SP down the stretch.
    2. Shin Soo Choo (3) - If we can get him without giving up Frazier, Hamilton, Stephenson or a major league SP, do it.
    3. David DeJesus (2) - I'd prefer him as a cheaper alternative to Pence. He hits RHP and can play LF or CF and is signed through 2013. Would want to platoon him with Stubbs and Ludwick.
    4. Hunter Pence (3) - Only if Choo is unavailable and the Cubs won't trade DeJesus in the division. Still would have to figure out who plays CF, and he's really expensive next year.
    5. Shane Victorino (2) - Would still do the Ondrusek straight up swap.
    6. Juan Pierre (2) - Only because he would cost way less in talent than Span.
    7. Denard Span (3) - I wouldn't trade a top 3 prospect for a guy who isn't much of an upgrade to Stubbs. We'd be paying in talent for his 3 years of team control which we don't really need.

    I have only included names that are strongly rumored to be on the block, hence no Dexter Fowler.
    1. Pass on Justin Upton, cost is too prohibitive for an underachiever.
    2. Choo's game & approach to the game I love but he isn't a CF so unless your trading a COF to get him, forget it.
    3. DeJesus could work out perfectly and likely wouldn't cost too much but he will cost a decent prospect or 2 if the Cubs pay some of his salary, which I would guess might be a part of the deal. But worth it likely.
    4. Pence similar to Choo in that he'd be playing out of position but I like his game a whole lot less. Not to mention his salary which I'm sure Philly would chip in as little as they could.
    5. The more I look at Victorino the more I like him. One of the few out there who can hit a curveball somewhat consistently from both sides of the plate. Something I think we lack as a team. If the Phils pay some of his contract I think we can make this deal. Better do it before Pittsburgh does.
    6. Pierre, worst case scenario addition only. In fact this deal has a chance to be a negative on this team.
    7. Span is a guy I like and as usual it's said that his team wants the moon for him. Well maybe they do in which case I don't think he is so special to warrant it with a DeJesus or Victorino available for much less.

    A few others
    Chase Headley - He I would pay a premium for because he is a LHH with a nice skillset that we need some of and plays a position of need for beyond this season which he is so conveniently signed for and he is versatile enough to play other positions for us in the short term. I wouldn't give up a Latos package for him and I really don't believe the Pads believe they can get such a return either. But it will cost a Heisey or Frazier and probably 2 prospects like Corcino or Cingrani & someone like Didi. I think GABP would help him decide to stay in the future but can we afford him long term for such a haul, we'd need to IMO?! Tough one but someone I wouldn't wanna rule out just yet.

    Ryan Sweeney - This one could be the perfect guy for us. He's one I think that would really flourish with a change of scenery and in a more hitter friendly park. He's not the ideal guy at the top of the lineup but he has a history of close to a .350 OBP%, .280 hitter and near .400 Slg. while playing all 3 OF positions. Since he hasn't had a great season in Boston I think he will come the cheapest and he has another season plus before FA.

    Emilio Bonifacio - Still like him but his name isn't really circulating, same with Fowler. But I think Bonifacio could be had with a Stubbs plus Sulbaran/Lotzkar type package and I would do it. And then I'd add Sweeney/DeJesus on top of it.
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