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Thread: Devin Mesoraco

  1. #16
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    If MLB has umpires that carry grudges, then it is time to clean the house. A MLB umpire, while human, is a person who should NEVER carry a grudge against an individual or a team. I like to think the umpires in MLB are a bit smarter than that. They might not be perfect (hold comments, lol), but hopefully they understand that their job requires no grudges/paybacks. I also like to think that a REPUTATION is developed by a doing this on a fairly regular basis and not based on a one-time incident. I'd hate to see this molehill become a mountain!
    It is really stressed in the world of umpiring not to hold grudges and while from my experiences I can't say it never happens it is pretty rare. I can see Fairchild having a short leash on Mes if a similar situation happens with Mes disputing a pitch. However as far as widening the zone when Mes is up or blowing a call against him, I seriously doubt that would happen. Most umpires especially at the professional level are not going to want to look bad by blowing a call just to settle a grudge. From my perspective and most of the umpires I know (including many ex pro's) , we realize that sometimes emotions can get out of hand because there is alot of intensity out there on the field and these things will happen.

    One teachable moment from this whole thing is when confronting an umpire whether as a player or coach is to keep hands down or behind your back. I keep mine in my back pocket when confronted so they cannot accuse me of trying to hit them or accidentally bump them like what happened with Mes
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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  3. #17
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Now we just him to block pitches like Hanigan...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #18
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    It would be a total joke if he's suspended.. Mes was standing there, palms up, ball in his hand, and the ump walked up to Mes and made the contact.
    It was very clear on the TV.. even Brantley said that.

    This is why I have little respect for umps. The ump had every right to throw Mes out of the game, but then to walk up and bump Mes and then say "Now you touched me" (Lip read, one of the TV guys said the same).. What a tool.
    The sooner they have computers calling balls and strikes the better..
    They can still have the human ump there for plays at the plate.
    You are absolutely right. It was a shameful display by the umpire. He escalated the dispute instead of walking away like a true professional. The contact was very clearly the umpire's fault yet he tried to blame it on Mesoraco. He showed he is a dishonest person. A good umpire has to control his emotions, remain impartial and be impeccably honest. If he can't do those things he doesn't belong in the big leagues.

    Mesoraco needs to learn that sometimes you are going to get paired up with a poor umpire. He needs to learn how to handle the situation better than he did last night obviously. He can learn a lot from Ryan Hanigan when it comes to manipulating umpires.

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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    The sooner they have computers calling balls and strikes the better.
    Boy it pains me to agree with that, but I do.

    The umps have come a LONG way since the bad old days, but it just isn't enough.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  6. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    Glad to see the passion. Although I'm not a huge Mesoraco fan just yet, I think what he did goes a long way with his pitching staff. I wouldn't be surprised to see comments from Reds' pitchers saying the same today.

    Having said that, the next time he catches, he'll be under the umpiring crew microscope. If anything in baseball is old school, it's the umpiring crews. They will have their way with this rookie if it's the last thing they do. I just hope they don't impact the game too negatively. Especially with the Reds in a pennant race.

    OP ED piece here: Mesoraco, as a receiver, is not ready to be a big league catcher. I can't tell you the number of times I have watched him mis-frame a pitch, "sway" away from the strike zone with his body and glove (robbing easy strikes from is pitcher), receive the ball too early in the zone, call for changeups when the batter is well behind a fastball only to see the hitter get out of an 0-2, 1-2 count with a hard single or extra base hit. Mes, more than any other catcher I can remember calls for pitches to speed up the hitter's bat in an odd count and uncalled for situation. His game management is more that of AA. IMO.

    Rarely if ever do I see him call a game according to his defense and where they are positioned. A lot, and I do mean A LOT of these things get hidden during the course of a season. Most people do not notice these things but they happen regularly. With the Reds' staff doing so well, it's easy to overlook the little things that do creep up and bite you. Just last night I saw Mes drop a 2 seam FB that was a strike but was called a ball because he simply didn't handle the pitch. Every strike counts. 3 AB's last night I can recall where Leake was off but Mes made him look WAAAY off.

    I noticed when Chapman was having a lot of difficulty that Mes was struggling to get set up for Chapman. Mes sets up square behind the plate and sways to the corners. Or if he does set up outside, which is rare, he moves so little that there is no advantage. With Chapman you really can't do that unless you're pitching right down the middle. Hanigan does a tremendous job splitting up the strike zone, splitting the plate and getting those borderline calls Chapman needs to be successful. Baker and possibly Price picked up on that too.

    There's a reason why guys like Corky Miller, Tim Spehr, Charlie O'Brien, Tim Lake and guys like them hang on so long. It's just simply not about throwing gear on, catching 1,200 + innings a year and hopefully getting better. Every nuance behind the plate counts. What's even more surprising is that Mark Berry and Mike Stefanski are the Reds' catching coaches during Spring Training for the entire organization. They have Mesoraco EVERY DAY and he really isn't getting better. He WILL get better, he's just not ready, IMO.
    Which is all the more reason we need to move to computerized strikezones. How someone frames a pitch or catches a pitch doesn't make it a strike or a ball. I have read the rules on the strikezone. Nowhere does it say anything about if a catcher does this or that when he catches the ball it can make a ball a strike or a strike a ball.

  7. #21
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Which is all the more reason we need to move to computerized strikezones. How someone frames a pitch or catches a pitch doesn't make it a strike or a ball. I have read the rules on the strikezone. Nowhere does it say anything about if a catcher does this or that when he catches the ball it can make a ball a strike or a strike a ball.
    Agreed completely. But in the meantime, the game is the game. What should be doesn't keep runs off the board.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Agreed completely. But in the meantime, the game is the game. What should be doesn't keep runs off the board.
    Agreed. Just really annoying. It is like saying that every shot Ray Allen takes should count as a point at least because it looks so nice, but one that say Dwight Howard takes outside of the paint shouldn't even if he makes it because it was ugly. Just a silly way to handle things.

  9. #23
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Agreed. Just really annoying. It is like saying that every shot Ray Allen takes should count as a point at least because it looks so nice, but one that say Dwight Howard takes outside of the paint shouldn't even if he makes it because it was ugly. Just a silly way to handle things.
    Hardly a fair comparison. This has nothing to do with aesthetics. The umpires aren't judging the catchers based on how prettily they catch and giving extra zone accordingly. It's simply a function of calling balls and strikes being a very hard thing to do and that certain catching behaviors make that catchers do affect it.

    If a basketball player could shuffle his feet in such a way that allowed him to be given credit for 3 pointers while standing a foot inside the line (or conversely, have a legit 3 point shot deemed worth 2 because the ref couldn't see where his feet where), we'd want our guys to take advantage of that.

    It's stupid, but as the game exists right now, a catcher's ability to frame pitches has notable influence on how the zone is called. Period. If a guy stinks at it, that's a problem.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #24
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Hardly a fair comparison. This has nothing to do with aesthetics. The umpires aren't judging the catchers based on how prettily they catch and giving extra zone accordingly. It's simply a function of calling balls and strikes being a very hard thing to do and that certain catching behaviors make that catchers do affect it.

    .
    Your exactly right. Umpire mechanics are taught to follow the ball to the mitt. If the mitt is moving it makes it harder to track the pitch.

    The next part of calling balls and strikes is keeping your head still. Your eyes are like a box camera and a box camera cannot take a good picture of the ball if the box is moving. Many umpires move their head without realizing it. We often have to literally hold our students’ heads still because they cannot tell themselves that their head is moving.. The eyeballs (as opposed to the head) follow the ball from the pitcher’s hand and see it all of the way into the catcher’s mitt.* This is called tracking. It is not easy and it is unlikely that amateurs who have not been specifically schooled in this will do it correctly.

    http://www.umpire.org/writers/plate1.html
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    You are absolutely right. It was a shameful display by the umpire. He escalated the dispute instead of walking away like a true professional. The contact was very clearly the umpire's fault yet he tried to blame it on Mesoraco. He showed he is a dishonest person. A good umpire has to control his emotions, remain impartial and be impeccably honest. If he can't do those things he doesn't belong in the big leagues.
    ....
    I can't seem to locate it, and my memory isn't what it used to be, but wasn't an ump suspended last year for doing just that... escalating the situation instead of defusing it?

    Another thing about the ump, in the following night, when he was on 3rd, he was still making calls that looked a bit biased, one of my friends, who doesn't watch much baseball, commented on the swing appeal that was called a strike by him. Friend said... "Hmm, that guy must have money on the other team" Cracked me up,
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    But even a one time thing can develop a reputation with the umpires, fairly or unfairly. That umpiring crew will remember that outburst, and you can beat other crews saw it as well. He's got a reputation now, and that isn't good.

    Again, I love his passion. He truly cares about winning. But he can't act out like that, even once. It's a bad look. Also, if he was going to blow his top, why would he blow it over a pitch like that? I didn't think it was particularly close. Hell if anything he should've been screaming at Leake, not the ump lol.
    Then MLB has a bigger joke of a collection of umpires than I thought. If that is going to cause the Reds to be called differently then the entire group needs fired and start over with guys from the minors or college. The point of any referee/umpire is that you are a impartial and call the game fairly, when you lose that ability it's time you do something else.
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    1. They kept the right guy.
    I'm not going to cry over spilt milk, but I think that is very much up for debate. Grandal has been an absolute beast this year at AAA and in his short exposure in the majors. I'll support Mesoraco since we can't undo what has been done, but I think the Padres may have wound up with the better player.

  14. #28
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    I'm not going to cry over spilt milk, but I think that is very much up for debate. Grandal has been an absolute beast this year at AAA and in his short exposure in the majors. I'll support Mesoraco since we can't undo what has been done, but I think the Padres may have wound up with the better player.
    You are probably right if we count Gandal's 83 total ABs as an indicator (you did mention short exposure! not a slight to you). I might be old-school, but the ability to call pitches and "work with" the pitcher should be counted too. Not sure how we can quantify that. Of course Latos may not be in Cincy if Mes was offered rather than Grandal (I do not know, just sayin').
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  15. #29
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFan75 View Post
    I can't seem to locate it, and my memory isn't what it used to be, but wasn't an ump suspended last year for doing just that... escalating the situation instead of defusing it?

    Another thing about the ump, in the following night, when he was on 3rd, he was still making calls that looked a bit biased, one of my friends, who doesn't watch much baseball, commented on the swing appeal that was called a strike by him. Friend said... "Hmm, that guy must have money on the other team" Cracked me up,
    Apparently, he was still at it today according to Brantley (take that for what its worth), made a bad call on a check swing. Regardless, Chad Fairchild does not seem to be a professional umpire, just an umpire calling games in the big leagues. Hopefully he will join Bob Davidson in the unemployment line.
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