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Thread: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

  1. #136
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Walking 3.5 per 9 and striking out just 6.3 per 9 and dropping him into late innings in your bullpen isn't exactly what I would call an ideal situation either.
    Good D behind him. Who knows, he may turn out to be a gas can, but I think he comes for a modest cost. It seems you default to any prospect in a deal that has performed above average is too high of an opportunity cost when the Reds deal them.

    He is an upgrade to four current guys in what has been a high-performing bullpen. It should bolster the pen.
    Can't win with 'em

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  3. #137
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Rolen since Votto went down:

    .324/.415/.618/1.032

    since ASB

    .348 /.426/.565/.991

    he's not done yet

  4. #138
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Scott Rolen introduced a culture to this team that was lacking for most of the decade, it was called being a "baseball player"

    It's craft that I believe has rubbed off on some of our Reds on the field today.

    It's an intangible, and it's priceless and unmeasured.
    Candidate for Post of the Year!
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  5. #139
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No, I said Stewart was our #1 pitching prospect. And he was. At the time we hadn't signed Leake or Boxberger and our other pitching prospects were: Travis Wood, Matt Maloney and well, a a few of guys who had some talent but terrible production.
    ok, you thought he was the #1 pitching prospect. That was unintentional misquote.

    IMO, it doesn't matter what you ranked Stewart in the Reds farm system. He hasn't amounted to anything yet, and prospects are dim.
    The year he was traded, wasn't he moved to the bullpen by the Reds? Doesn't that kind of indicate they didn't have a lot of faith in him as a starter?
    Stewart racked up some gaudy numbers as a minor league reliever and climbed the chain fast.. Seems like a perfect case of selling high.. Gaudy numbers, highly rated yet the Reds so far have correctly guessed that he's not a ML pitcher.

    You keep saying that Toronto had no choice to trade Rolen anywhere but Cincy. Well, if Cincy lowballed Toronto.. they simply ask Rolen where his second choice is.. or just keep him for the duration of the contract.
    The word was that Dempster would only accept a trade to LA.. well, LA wasn't willing to ante up and the Cubs found another suitor.. Things change.
    No reason for Toronto to trade Rolen and take on EdE's contract without getting a decent prospect back.. The Toronto GM seems pretty competent.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #140
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Good D behind him. Who knows, he may turn out to be a gas can, but I think he comes for a modest cost. It seems you default to any prospect in a deal that has performed above average is too high of an opportunity cost when the Reds deal them.

    He is an upgrade to four current guys in what has been a high-performing bullpen. It should bolster the pen.
    I absolutely loved the Mat Latos deal from day 1. Still do. Those guys all performed very well.

    I don't mind trading prospects. I just don't like trading them for things we don't need and I don't think that Broxton is something we needed when we had guys like Joseph and Hoover sitting in AAA (more Hoover than Joseph).

  7. #141
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Scott Rolen introduced a culture to this team that was lacking for most of the decade, it was called being a "baseball player"

    It's craft that I believe has rubbed off on some of our Reds on the field today.

    It's an intangible, and it's priceless and unmeasured.
    The Reds had been terrible for many years before the trade.That stopped the day it happened.

  8. #142
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    The goods news is that maybe this cuts back the high leverage innings of 5.22xFIP Ondrusek.

  9. #143
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Reds wanted a veteran reliever for the playoff run and hopefully the playoffs. Thats why they went with Broxton over Joseph/Hoover.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  10. #144
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I strongly disagree Brutus. I am done with it though. I have explained my beliefs on it far too many times already and they aren't changing. You can disagree with them all you want.
    Well, Doug, if your position is that a subjective opinion at the time of the trade is right or wrong and results never will matter after the fact, I can honestly say there's nothing left to debate anyhow. You basically have left no wiggle room to criticize.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #145
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Well, Doug, if your position is that a subjective opinion at the time of the trade is right or wrong and results never will matter after the fact, I can honestly say there's nothing left to debate anyhow. You basically have left no wiggle room to criticize.
    Trades are made with the information you have at the time. If we knew what would happen afterwards no one would ever make a bad or good trade. They would all be perfect trades for both sides. But it doesn't work that way.

  12. #146
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Reds wanted a veteran reliever for the playoff run and hopefully the playoffs. Thats why they went with Broxton over Joseph/Hoover.
    I agree.

    I just don't think they should have. At least over Hoover. Joseph has his own set of walk issues in AAA he needs to work on.

  13. #147
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Scott Rolen introduced a culture to this team that was lacking for most of the decade, it was called being a "baseball player"

    It's craft that I believe has rubbed off on some of our Reds on the field today.

    It's an intangible, and it's priceless and unmeasured.
    Couldn't agree more. The Reds became a better team that day and many of our players became better players due to his example and leadership. You can't place a value on something like that.

  14. #148
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I absolutely loved the Mat Latos deal from day 1. Still do. Those guys all performed very well.

    I don't mind trading prospects. I just don't like trading them for things we don't need and I don't think that Broxton is something we needed when we had guys like Joseph and Hoover sitting in AAA (more Hoover than Joseph).
    Hoover scared me when he was in there. Didn't seem to have command. Joseph is unknown to me, to be honest, but he seems to be the key guy in the deal just based on the numbers. It just seems you overestimate the job a young guy will do at the major league level. Its a pretty big bump, esp. in August of a pennant race.
    Can't win with 'em

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  15. #149
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    what I am saying is that just because a trade works out doesn't make it a good trade and just because a trade doesn't work out doesn't make it a bad one. .
    By that logic, no one ever loses a trade.
    In every trade, both GMs are making what they feel is a logical move based on the incomplete info they have.
    People use this logic to say that the Reds didn't lose the Josh Hamilton-Volquez trade.. It really makes no sense. The actual results say that the Reds overwhelmingly lost that trade.

    Likewise, the actual results say the Reds won the Rolen trade hands down.

    Let's say hypothetically that the Reds had 10 pitching prospects that you ranked higher than Zach Stewart at the time.. Would the trade be ok then?
    I am asking this because you are clinging to the "#1 pitching prospect" label as a justification.. Seems to me that if Stewart is the best pitching prospect, the Reds farm system is weak, and trades should be explored as a way to inject talent into the organization.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  16. #150
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Hoover scared me when he was in there. Didn't seem to have command. Joseph is unknown to me, to be honest, but he seems to be the key guy in the deal just based on the numbers. It just seems you overestimate the job a young guy will do at the major league level. Its a pretty big bump, esp. in August of a pennant race.
    JJ Hoover pitched pretty well for the Reds earlier this year. Maybe he scared you. Broxton scares me. I will take the guy who can record his own outs.


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