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Thread: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

  1. #211
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I think its an overpay because I've seen Broxton pitch this season - he isn't that good fellas. Really, his best stuff was in his Dodger years. The old smoking fastball is gone. He throws a "heavy" (sinking) fastball now that does get groundballs, but his control is spotty at best. It's very Arredondo like. That 3.53 average isn't level - like averaged out 3 and half per nine. It's very much 3 or 4 in a row on off nights and then a good night. So you have good Jonathan and bad Jonathan and you never know which one you'll get. Consistency is the big issue. I'd say 2 out of 3 times he'll get the job done easy and then he'll scare the daylights out of you but still get it done and then he'll just barf all over himself the next time. He still does have a flash of that old fire once in a while when he reaches for it but it comes at a price -overthrowing - and he's as likely to get hammered as strike a guy out. He hasn't been horrible at all, just inconsistent enough to be unreliable. Is he getting stronger? Didn't seem so to me but then I don't see him every game either. I watch maybe half as many Royals as Reds games. I don't hate the trade but losing 2 prospects for 2 months of Broxton seems an overpay to me. Now, if he gets a big out or two in the playoffs I'll love it and it will be worth every game Donnie Joseph ever pitches for Kansas City.
    This description kind of resembles Coco.

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  3. #212
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    I am down with this trade. Upgrading the pen is always welcome and I am done with the days of getting fired up because they dealt a lottery ticket type reliever. This team is different now. This is a move that a winning ball club makes. I know we don't have a lot of experience with these kind of trades, but we should get used to it.

  4. #213
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Fine you drew me in. But what about when they do? If you don't grumble now how can you justify grumbling in hindsight?
    I am just over 30 years old. It took half my life -- from the time I was 15 to the time I was 30 -- to see the Reds back in the playoffs.

    Personally, I hate that kind of a drought. So if the Reds are in a position to own the league's best record and the offense is that they keep overpaying to give themselves a shot at a World Series, I personally would rather not grumble at all. I'm not saying there aren't prospects I like, nor have the Reds not parted with a few guys I didn't want to see them part with, but I like the guys they're getting back and as such, they're in a position to make noise in the postseason. Instead of grumbling, I'll find the nearest rooftop to shout, 'hallelujah.'
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #214
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Do players still receive the same performance boost in switching from the American League to the National League that they used to? I.e., is it reasonable to expect Brox's numbers to improve simply because he's now facing NL lineups rather than superior AL hitting?

    BTW, honest questions. I don't have a preconceived answer.
    I don't know the answer, but I imagine there should be some slight improvement. There of course is no DH here. As a reliever he will not face the pitcher too often, but generally a DH>Pinch Hitter.

  6. #215
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    All this fascination with K's astounds me. Got a name for you: Johnny Cueto

    Broxton may not K people like he used to. But he induces groundballs. So does Cueto. Cueto leads the NL in least HR/9 (last time I checked). Broxton doesn't give up HR's much either.

    There's more than one way to get an out. After a K, I prefer a groundball.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  7. #216
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Because pitchers who don't strike guys out tend to give up hits. When you couple that with a guy who isn't exactly able to throw strikes, he is now giving up hits and walks. That isn't good.
    I understand where you're coming from but I don't see a guy who's "giving up walks". He walked two in the month of July and hasn't walked more than two in any outting this year.

    I'm not expecting the pre shoulder woes Brox but I do think he's an upgrade over any RH pitcher we have in our pen now.

    That said, I do think we overpaid for him

  8. #217
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    All this fascination with K's astounds me. Got a name for you: Johnny Cueto

    Broxton may not K people like he used to. But he induces groundballs. So does Cueto. Cueto leads the NL in HR/9 (last time I checked). Broxton doesn't give up HR's much either.

    There's more than one way to get an out. After a K, I prefer a groundball.
    Johnny Cueto walks HALF as many people as Broxton. He also strikes out more guys than Broxton.

    Groundballs are good. But they are incredibly inferior in terms of value to a pitcher than walks and strikeouts.

  9. #218
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I understand where you're coming from but I don't see a guy who's "giving up walks". He walked two in the month of July and hasn't walked more than two in any outting this year.

    I'm not expecting the pre shoulder woes Brox but I do think he's an upgrade over any RH pitcher we have in our pen now.

    That said, I do think we overpaid for him
    He walks 3.5 hitters per 9 innings this year. That isn't really good. It isn't terrible, but it isn't good.

    As a reliever, he probably shouldn't have more than 2 walks in any game this year. As for July, sure, he has walked 2. He has also only struck out 2. He has all of 5 innings in July.

  10. #219
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I am just over 30 years old. It took half my life -- from the time I was 15 to the time I was 30 -- to see the Reds back in the playoffs.

    Personally, I hate that kind of a drought. So if the Reds are in a position to own the league's best record and the offense is that they keep overpaying to give themselves a shot at a World Series, I personally would rather not grumble at all. I'm not saying there aren't prospects I like, nor have the Reds not parted with a few guys I didn't want to see them part with, but I like the guys they're getting back and as such, they're in a position to make noise in the postseason. Instead of grumbling, I'll find the nearest rooftop to shout, 'hallelujah.'
    I think part of the reason I am less than thrilled about the deal is because we didn't get what we needed yet we dealt off 2 of arguably our top 10 prospects for a guy who has any sizable question marks. Now don't get me wrong I felt like we could use a high leverage RHRP but golly they couldn't even acquire a decent LH bat for the bench? I'm sure Miami would have parted with Gregg Dobbs for a little bit of nothing, they gave up Hanley for less than what we gave for Broxton. Just annoyed that this went down like this.

    Let me stress the word annoyed not angry or on the bridge.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 07-31-2012 at 06:55 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  11. #220
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    I like to think I know a lot about baseball, but I've come around to the opinion that the GMs and teams involved know more about the players than I do.

    I've got my opinions and all, but talent going out in trades is like thinking about in-the-past girlfriends. Their potential seemed endless at the time, but then when I see them on Facebook now, I think I ended up making the right decision.

    I won't say Broxton will be lights-out, but he'll be better than Ondrusek. And if Walt's scouts say he's getting stronger, then I'm willing to see what he's got before I pass judgement.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  12. #221
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I think part of the reason I am less than thrilled about the deal is because we didn't get what we needed yet we dealt off 2 of arguably our top 10 prospects for a guy who has any sizable question marks. Now don't get me wrong I felt like we could use a high leverage RHRP but golly they couldn't even acquire a decent LH bat for the bench? I'm sure Miami would have parted with Gregg Dobbs for a little bit of nothing, they gave up Hanley for less than what we gave for Broxton. Just annoyed that this went down like this.
    I don't think much of Sulbaran, personally. Joseph is very talented but still something of an enigma. That said, I've always felt guys like Joseph and Boxberger are highly replaceable. You can find quality 2-pitch pitchers with good velocity and a plus second pitch to be a highly-effective reliever, so I'll never stress the loss of guys like that.

    Heck, look at the Reds' pen this year. Guys like Arredondo, Simon, Hoover all came pretty cheap. Masset was not necessarily a throw-in, but he was a spare part included in a deal for an aging outfielder.

    Hanley's deal was a different situation. The Marlins were eager to get rid of him because of his baggage. While the Reds gave up more for Broxton than Hanley, the Cardinals also surrendered one of their best prospects for a lesser reliever than Broxton.

    I am disappointed the Reds didn't address the leadoff situation. While I'm not necessarily outright adamant about replacing Stubbs, it's the only sensible place to upgrade and find a high-OBP guy at the top of the order. Span would have made a ton of sense for many different reasons. Nonetheless, what's done is done. I like this better than doing nothing, even if doing nothing wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #222
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    I'm hoping Broxton slides in as the RH 8th inning guy alongside Marshall from the left side and all the remaining relievers move down a notch. I think that can improve the pen in itself. I think that it also gives Dusty another option when Aroldis has had to go two or three days in a row and there's a save opportunity.

  14. #223
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Do players still receive the same performance boost in switching from the American League to the National League that they used to? I.e., is it reasonable to expect Brox's numbers to improve simply because he's now facing NL lineups rather than superior AL hitting?

    BTW, honest questions. I don't have a preconceived answer.
    Broxton likely won't get to face many pitchers.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #224
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I don't think much of Sulbaran, personally. Joseph is very talented but still something of an enigma. That said, I've always felt guys like Joseph and Boxberger are highly replaceable. You can find quality 2-pitch pitchers with good velocity and a plus second pitch to be a highly-effective reliever, so I'll never stress the loss of guys like that.
    .
    So why trade two guys who fit that profile - Sulbaran (95 MPH FB and a plus curve) and Joseph (93 MPH FB and a plus slider) - for one of those guys? Because he used to be really good? Because he has MLB experience?

  16. #225
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    I liked Joseph and he might have had a nice future in the Reds pen, but for all we know, the same may be true for Tony Cingrani. The bullpen often has a way of taking care of itself.


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