If I start posting all the things I have been wrong about that thread will explode.Originally Posted by Puffy
Excuse me Sir - I believe the "I was Wrong" thread is calling you on the phone right now.......
If I start posting all the things I have been wrong about that thread will explode.Excuse me Sir - I believe the "I was Wrong" thread is calling you on the phone right now.......
"Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."
Oh really? Thanks, I hadn't realized that.
My point was that it seems hitters 1-8 are generally better in an AL lineup than its NL counterpart. Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. I was wondering if anybody had the answer to that, not whether Broxton would be facing pitchers or not.
I liked Joseph and he might have had a nice future in the Reds pen, but for all we know, the same may be true for Tony Cingrani too. The bullpen often has a way of taking care of itself.
dougdirt, I give you credit for standing by your locker after the game, and answering all the questions and giving explanations on your thinking.
hat tip to you, sir
Like so many others have said, I think Broxton adds some depth to what is fast becoming a shaky 6th and 7th inning bullpen. He's certainly not the pitcher he used to be, at this point. He is recovering from injury, and if Walt's scouts think he has a chance to continue to improve, well I think that's why he is here.
As for Sulbaran and Joseph- I'm sure they are talented pitchers, but minor league relievers really are a dime a dozen. Look who's in the Reds bullpen right now, and where they came from- only Ondrusek and LeCure came up through the system.
You can always find relief pitching- especially long and middle relievers.
This really is a minor move.
The great run the Reds starters had the last 2 weeks has allowed many of us to forget how shaky the BP seemed in the run up to the AS Game. I think adding depth to the BP is a good thing. Whether or not Broxton is the quality depth we're looking for remains to be seen...
School's out. What did you expect?
At the same time, I see a pitcher who profiles like Broxton as a dime a dozen. And they are. Sure, I guess he could be improving or something, but the numbers haven't really shown that yet.
Well, actually that's not true. I just happened to already have 2 tabs of baseball -reference.com open and have both of them side by side.
K/9 - 2012
Cueto - 6.8
Broxton - 6.3
Ondrusek - 5.9
Arredondo - 9.9
Chapman - 17.0
Simon - 8.0
Bray - 7.3 (small sample - 2012)
Lecure - 8.9
BB/9 - 2012
Cueto - 2.2
Broxton - 3.5
Ondrusek - 5.0
Arredondo - 5.3
Chapman - 2.5
Bray - 14.5 (small sample)
Lecure - 4.5
Simon - 3.5
On baseball-reference.com, according to his 2012 game log with KC.
Broxton has pitched in 35 games.
He pitched 1 inning in 33 games.
He pitched .2 inning in 1 game and 2 innings in another game.
In 35 games, he walked zero batter in 24 of those games.
In 11 games, he walked 1 batter in 8 of those.
in 3 others, he walked 2 batters. Blew 2 games when he walked 2.
Took 2 losses due to giving up untimely hits but no walks.
I think this idea that he walks everyone is pretty much proven wrong by the fact he didn't issue a walk in 24 of his 35 appearances. And compared to the rest of our bullpen, other than Chapman, he's tied with Simon for the next lowest BB/9 and everyone else is worse.
Last edited by Vottomatic; 07-31-2012 at 07:18 PM.
Because he's still pretty good. It remains to be seen if he'll be anywhere near as good as he once was, but he's better than Arredondo, Simon and Ondrusek and would help the Reds with high-leverage innings. While he's not throwing, currently, as hard as he once was nor is he missing as many bats, he's helping his cause by throwing a heavy fastball and keeping the ball down. If the velocity continues to improve as reports suggest, then he absolutely will be worth the payment.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
Brutus, I will take Addedondo and Simon over Broxton. Counting on him to "keep" gaining velocity isn't something I am paying for. Maybe Walt was.
Even in his only season below 10 K/9, Broxton is still throwing almost a full MPH faster than Simon. Simon's career K/9 is the same as Broxton's 2012. And we all know Broxton has been a better pitcher his entire career than Simon.
Arredondo is certainly missing more bats, but he's also "walking a bunch of guys" to quote you. You complained about Broxton's 3.5 BB/9 but Arredondo is walking 5.27 guys per nine and also giving up considerably more fly balls. Broxton's FIP is actually as good as Simon's right now and a lot better than Arredondo. And that's only assuming Broxton is doing only what he's doing this year and doesn't revert back more closely to his career talent level. I think it's fair to suggest he'll continue to regress a little bit back to his past, even if he'll never be the total dominating force he once was.
Broxton, even now, throws 95. That's faster than every reliever this year the Reds have (sans Superman).
Last edited by Brutus; 07-31-2012 at 07:24 PM.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
Broxton has 13 postseason appearances. How many pitchers on the current Reds staff have anywhere close to that? That's not something to be discounted.
Remember how shocked and unprepared the Reds were last time they made the playoffs?
Go BLUE!!!
If Broxton provides stability the rest of the year in place of Dodo and Ondrusek and Bray, I'm all for it - not sure I care if they gave up DJ and Subaran. It's about realizing you have one of the best teams in baseball right now.
If you can't get more offense, better take care of those 1-2 run leads when your starter is gassed, when this offense gives you its usual 2-4 runs, and that's likely what they're going to get offensively, if that, in the post season, i'm guessing, as well.
I'm hoping guys like DiDi, Hamilton etc.., can provide some bench depth in Sept.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton
By Tim Dierkes [July 31 at 2:28pm CST]
Broxton, 28, has bounced back this year to post a 2.27 ERA in 35 2/3 innings, although his peripheral stats aren't great with a 6.3 K/9 and 3.5 BB/9. He has posted a career-best 56.6% groundball rate, a large part in why he's allowed just one home run. Broxton is throwing 95 miles per hour again and has racked up 23 saves, though I'm guessing he'll join Sean Marshall in setting up Aroldis Chapman. Broxton is on a one-year deal and has $1.4MM remaining in base salary.
Joseph, 24, has a 1.72 ERA, 11.7 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, and one home run allowed in 52 1/3 relief innings across Double and Triple-A this year. Baseball America ranked him 27th among Reds prospects prior to the season, suggesting at the time he could become a power reliever in the bigs if able to improve his mechanics.
Sulbaran, 22, has a 4.04 ERA, 9.5 K/9, 4.6 BB/9, and 1.46 HR/9 in 104 2/3 innings as a starter at Double-A this year. Baseball America ranked him 12th among Reds prospects prior to the season, praising his stuff but expressing concern with his maturity and secondarypitches. They saw his future as a potential No. 3 starter at that time.
Broxton also has 23 saves. He can handle the ninth inning. Some folks don't believe it is a special skill to pitch the ninth effectively, but I do.
I believe there are more guys out there who can handle the 9th, at least mentally, than can't. I think it is more rare to find a good reliever who can't close over a long haul than to find a good reliever who can. Maybe I am crazy, I just don't believe there are 20-30% of relievers out there who are just so much stronger mentally than the other 70-80%.
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