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Thread: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

  1. #331
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I could make a case that he isn't better than LeCure, Simon or Arredondo just as easily as you could make the case that he is.
    Ok Doug.. let's say for the sake of argument that Broxton is roughly equal or slightly inferior to all 3 of those guys.

    Bray just went on the DL. That's a spot that needs to be filled.
    Ondrusek has struggled, that's a role that needs upgrading.

    That's two slots that Broxton is a clear upgrade over.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #332
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Nickname??

    Broxton needs to get with Frisch's asap.


  4. #333
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    3. data showing clearly that Broxton's fastball has increased in velocity by each month. Backed up by fact ......... not debatable.
    This just isn't correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    It's notable to me that the Reds bullpen has guys with good K rates but Broxton's e.r.a. is lower than them. Then there's Johnny Cueto with a similar K rate to Broxton. Cueto has lead the NL for most of the season in starter e.r.a. I don't see anyone questioning Johnny or saying he can't sustain it. And he doesn't thrive on missing bats. He just knows how to induce ground balls, keep hitters off balance, and rely on his defense mostly.
    Cueto this season has a GB% that is largely just a tick greater than average (Cueto: 47.7%, ave: 45.4%) this season which doesn't fit the narrative that he's been trying to induce GB.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #334
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    He's going to have to play power forward. Already enough post players on the staff.

    Also, the suspenders are a good idea for his uniform.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  6. #335
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Also, the suspenders are a good idea for his uniform.
    Or perhaps scaffolding.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #336
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    FWIW, Kevin Goldstein ranked the 41 prospects that were traded in the last month.

    Joseph ranked 10 and Sulbaran ranked 18. Todd Redmond was 38.

    Sounds about right to me- nothing to get too worked up over either way. I think one of the reasons it always seems like we overpay is that the people who say that follow these prospects very closely. What appears to be minor league fodder or C-level prospects to the casual fan (or fans of other teams) frequently get mistaken for very good prospects by Redszoners who have followed a lot of these guys since the day they were drafted.

    The fact of the matter is that neither Donnie Joseph or JC Sulbaran were top 5 pitching prospects in the Reds organization, an organization that is not one of the 5 strongest in the game in terms of high-end talent or depth. Trading those two for a big league contributor with playoff experience when you are (hopefully) a playoff-bound team is not something to get too worked up about.

    Same thing we saw six months ago with guys like Sappelt and Torreyes.
    Go BLUE!!!

  8. #337
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Ok Doug.. let's say for the sake of argument that Broxton is roughly equal or slightly inferior to all 3 of those guys.

    Bray just went on the DL. That's a spot that needs to be filled.
    Ondrusek has struggled, that's a role that needs upgrading.

    That's two slots that Broxton is a clear upgrade over.
    So would JJ Hoover, who we already have. We made a lateral move in my opinion because the Reds don't trust young players and would rather have mediocre "name" guys. Sure, Broxton throws hard, but his fastball isn't the problem, it is that he doesn't have an out pitch. His slider used to be among the best in baseball, now it is average at best.

  9. #338
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton



    We are definitely going to win any bench clearing brawls.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  10. #339
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post


    We are definitely going to win any bench clearing brawls.
    We needed someone who could strike physical fear into the hearts of opponents ever since Jonny Gomes left town.
    Go BLUE!!!

  11. #340
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So would JJ Hoover, who we already have. We made a lateral move in my opinion because the Reds don't trust young players and would rather have mediocre "name" guys. Sure, Broxton throws hard, but his fastball isn't the problem, it is that he doesn't have an out pitch. His slider used to be among the best in baseball, now it is average at best.
    For the stretch run, I'm fine with that. For the long term I'm not.

    We saw what happened in 2010 when a bunch of young guys with no postseason experience got to the playoffs- they choked.

    For the long run, there isn't much to indicate that the Reds don't trust younger players. Zack Cozart is still the starting SS. Jay Bruce is still the starting RF. Aroldis Chapman is still the closer. Devin Mesoraco still gets plenty of playing time. I'd be surprised if JJ Hoover isn't on the team next season, as he should be. For now, it's not a bad thing to add a veteran with 13 postseason appearances to a pitching staff that may have less than that combined.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #341
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    For the stretch run, I'm fine with that. For the long term I'm not.

    We saw what happened in 2010 when a bunch of young guys with no postseason experience got to the playoffs- they choked.

    For the long run, there isn't much to indicate that the Reds don't trust younger players. Zack Cozart is still the starting SS. Jay Bruce is still the starting RF. Aroldis Chapman is still the closer. Devin Mesoraco still gets plenty of playing time. I'd be surprised if JJ Hoover isn't on the team next season, as he should be. For now, it's not a bad thing to add a veteran with 13 postseason appearances to a pitching staff that may have less than that combined.
    Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.

  13. #342
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.
    No, I watched that series. They choked.

    There were an unbelievable amount of mental blocks, baserunning mistakes, and errors- in Game 2 especially.

    What's happening here IMO is losing the forest for the trees. Concentrating on the physics of a Jonathan Broxton pitch is distracting you from seeing that this pitching staff has almost zero playoff experience. I think you (and others) are underestimating what that means.

    It's why academics and whiteboard analysis don't always work perfectly in the real world. No matter how smart or talented someone may be, sometimes there is no substitute for experience.
    Go BLUE!!!

  14. #343
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    However, Broxton needs a nickname.
    The Brox Bomber

    Too "on the nose?"
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

  15. #344
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.
    They didn't face Lee, and they most certainly choked away Game 2. But in fairness to the young players, there were also serious mental and physical mistakes by veterans (including a rare error by Rolen) that contributed to the meltdown.

  16. #345
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.
    Cardinals didn't seem to intimidated last year.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand


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