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Thread: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

  1. #346
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.
    They choked. Hard to watch the games and think anything else. At the time, I wanted to see the Reds play in the playoffs in the worst way possible, and I got my wish.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  3. #347
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Watch the defense the Reds played in game 2 and tell me they didn't choke.

    Pretty sure half the Philies runs in game 3 came on an error too.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  4. #348
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Wow, 5 unanimous responses inside of two minutes. I think there is some pretty strong resistance to the idea that they didn't choke!
    Go BLUE!!!

  5. #349
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    They didn't face Lee, and they most certainly choked away Game 2. But in fairness to the young players, there were also serious mental and physical mistakes by veterans (including a rare error by Rolen) that contributed to the meltdown.
    Well, I try to keep all of that series out of my mind, so totally my bad on the Lee comment. But simply playing poorly doesn't mean you choked. And being young doesn't mean you will choke. Being a vet doesn't mean you won't choke either.

  6. #350
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Although Broxton has postseason experience, his numbers during the postseason were not very good. Just throwing that out there.

    However, the experience can't hurt, that's for sure.

  7. #351
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Well, I try to keep all of that series out of my mind, so totally my bad on the Lee comment. But simply playing poorly doesn't mean you choked. And being young doesn't mean you will choke. Being a vet doesn't mean you won't choke either.
    The best defensive team in baseball that year commits 5(?) errors in game 2 and at least one more in game 3 which gave the Phillies a run. It was a choke job. Doesn't mean it'll happen a again, but it was a choke job.

    And that's without even mentioning the lack of hitting.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  8. #352
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Well, I try to keep all of that series out of my mind, so totally my bad on the Lee comment. But simply playing poorly doesn't mean you choked. And being young doesn't mean you will choke. Being a vet doesn't mean you won't choke either.
    We've come to the conclusion that clutch and choke don't exist in baseball here at RZ.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  9. #353
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    What's happening here IMO is losing the forest for the trees. Concentrating on the physics of a Jonathan Broxton pitch is distracting you from seeing that this pitching staff has almost zero playoff experience. I think you (and others) are underestimating what that means.

    It's why academics and whiteboard analysis don't always work perfectly in the real world. No matter how smart or talented someone may be, sometimes there is no substitute for experience.
    And it seems pretty clear that's what the Reds are thinking. They wanted some insurance for money games late in the season and in October. Didn't cost them much, so it's hard to complain even if it goes wrong. Kind of the opposite of emptying both barrels for Gary Majewski.
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  10. #354
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    For the stretch run, I'm fine with that. For the long term I'm not.

    We saw what happened in 2010 when a bunch of young guys with no postseason experience got to the playoffs- they choked.

    For the long run, there isn't much to indicate that the Reds don't trust younger players. Zack Cozart is still the starting SS. Jay Bruce is still the starting RF. Aroldis Chapman is still the closer. Devin Mesoraco still gets plenty of playing time. I'd be surprised if JJ Hoover isn't on the team next season, as he should be. For now, it's not a bad thing to add a veteran with 13 postseason appearances to a pitching staff that may have less than that combined.
    Actually without Bronson, we have less than that (12). Bronson has 11 appearances himself. Good point.
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  11. #355
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Off the top of my head:
    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Bailey
    Chapman
    Marshall
    Arredondo
    Ondrusek
    Bray

    have all pitched in the playoffs. I literally just named the entire staff other than Latos, Leake, Simon, and LeCure. Without looking up Marshall and Arredondo's number, I can say every Reds pitcher who pitched in the 2010 playoffs not named Volquez pitched well. Don't think expierence is an issue here.
    Last edited by reds44; 08-01-2012 at 02:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  12. #356
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post


    We are definitely going to win any bench clearing brawls.
    Hi makes his mitt look tiny.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #357
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    And it seems pretty clear that's what the Reds are thinking. They wanted some insurance for money games late in the season and in October. Didn't cost them much, so it's hard to complain even if it goes wrong. Kind of the opposite of emptying both barrels for Gary Majewski.
    As I've said in other posts, I think the hidden agenda here relates to the heavy use of Chapman.

    Walt may be concerned that Dusty is using Chapman so often to close games.

    Not that I blame Dusty or that Walt blames Dusty. I didn't think Marshall handled the closer spot very well, and I see nobody else on this team (pre-trade) who I would use to close.

    Brox does have 23 saves this year. His peripherals aren't that great, but he is an experienced closer. I expect him to have several closing opportunities on days when Chapman should rest.

    If I were a GM, I would always want a back up closer (from among my set up men). Coco could have used one, he was so heavily used in certain stretches over the last four seasons.

    Danny Graves/Scott Williamson in 1999.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-01-2012 at 02:28 PM.

  14. #358
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    I can't find much fault in this move. I like the fact that Broxton has some good experience and I like the fact that this probably means less Ondrusek.

    I don't like losing Joseph but there was no way he was going to play a large role in October anyway.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  15. #359
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As I've said in other posts, I think the hidden agenda here relates to the heavy use of Chapman.
    Excellent point.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #360
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    Re: Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As I've said in other posts, I think the hidden agenda here relates to the heavy use of Chapman.

    Walt may be concerned that Dusty is using Chapman so often to close games.

    Not that I blame Dusty or that Walt blames Dusty. I didn't think Marshall handled the closer spot very well, and I see nobody else on this team (pre-trade) who I would use to close.

    Brox does have 23 saves this year. His peripherals aren't that great, but he is an experienced closer. I expect him to have several closing opportunities on days when Chapman should rest.

    If I were a GM, I would always want a back up closer (from among my set up men). Coco could have used one, he was so heavily used in certain stretches over the last four seasons.

    Danny Graves/Scott Williamson in 1999.
    Not that I think you are wrong, heck, I suspect you might even be right, but if you are right here, doesn't it just further display the disconnect between the front office and the manager?

    If you were the GM and you believed your reliever were being overused, wouldn't you step in and set up some rules.


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