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Thread: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

  1. #76
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    I kinda see both sides. For George, he deserves respect to do his job.

    Ultimately if I had to choose aside, I think it's a bit overkill to eject the PA intern.

    They aren't part of the game, they aren't inciting violence- in fact, it probably adds some comic relief and gives an outlet for folks to laugh about the situation.

    Players, fans, and others do need to show respect for the umpire. I get that.

    But honestly, umpires have issues too and it's rarely spoken about.

    Remember the Brett Lawrie incident? See, that was the ump's doing. He got mad because on an obvious ball 4, the enitre world didn't hold its collective breath to hear him say what we all knew. Lawrie trots down to first before he could render his verdict, so he called it a strike. That's cheating. It's cheating like a spitball is cheating, it's cheating like pine tar use, it's cheating.

    Then here comes another ball four, five feet off the plate, and he calls it a strike. All because Brett Lawrie can't think for himself. So the umpire cheats again. All so his little feelings aren't hurt, he gives an out that should not be rewarded.

    Brett Lawrie shouldn't show the umpire up, right? But- how many times do you see an umpire give a very exaggerated called third strike call. Like, he's almost happy to do it. Is that not showing the batter up? Bang bang plays at first are the same. It's like watching a theater production.

    OR, could umpires may be human and can't help but raise their emotions on certain plays, maybe like Brett Lawrie can't help walking down to first on an obvious ball four?

    Nobody is there to watch the umpire, if we could replace them with machines we all would, so for me, they need to check the ego at the door, do your best to get the call right and not worry so much about what everybody else thinks.


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  3. #77
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Gents, this should put this little exercise in I am not sure what to rest.

    b.Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules, and to enforce the prescribed penalties.
    c.Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
    d.Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.
    e.Each umpire has authority at his discretion to eject from the playing field (1) any person whose duties permit his presence on the field, such as ground crew members, ushers, photographers, newsmen, broadcasting crew members, etc., and (2) any spectator or other person not authorized to be on the playing field.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info...s_interest.jsp
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  4. #78
    Member traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    First I never argued a player could jeer an umpire. Your hypothetical falls flat to begin with but it also requires suspension of context. For instance, it's surprising to see it argued than an organist is the equivalent of someone playing in the game.

    If an ump wanted to jeer a player, it's an obvious break from contextual mores. If an ump wanted to jeer an organist, it would be surreal and make the ump look boorish but who cares relative to the context of the game? Which really is the point...why does the ump give a rip about the organist? That he's so in tune to the fringe probably explains the missed call.

    The ump is supposed to be an impartial arbiter of the rules so that the truly important people can focus solely on competition and results can be determined without prejudice.

    I can't imagine any school of umpire philosophy where it would be considered an acceptable outcome to have an ump's actions discussed nationally because he chose to make a decision that made him the focus.

    An organist played a nursery rhyme. What followed makes umps look silly.
    You argued "not a logical extension," so it isn't necessary that you argued that specific argument. You implied that the critical commentary in the form of sarcasm was justified because the ump did not do his job properly. So I made the inference toward anyone involved having a right to criticize each other's job if they did not do it right. And I violated no logical rules in doing so. I made an application of the implied principal--fair game.
    "Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"

  5. #79
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    You argued "not a logical extension," so it isn't necessary that you argued that specific argument. You implied that the critical commentary in the form of sarcasm was justified because the ump did not do his job properly. So I made the inference toward anyone involved having a right to criticize each other's job if they did not do it right. And I violated no logical rules in doing so. I made an application of the implied principal--fair game.
    Not really because it's not a logical extension of an argument maintaining a music intern could play a nursery rhyme to suggest that also means an ump could mock a player.

    That's like suggesting that since an organit can play an enthusiastic tune after a noteworthy play, an ump can therefore hug players.

    You made an inference, but it wasn't a logical extension of the argument.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #80
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    I kinda see both sides. For George, he deserves respect to do his job.

    Ultimately if I had to choose aside, I think it's a bit overkill to eject the PA intern.

    They aren't part of the game, they aren't inciting violence- in fact, it probably adds some comic relief and gives an outlet for folks to laugh about the situation.

    Players, fans, and others do need to show respect for the umpire. I get that.

    But honestly, umpires have issues too and it's rarely spoken about.

    Remember the Brett Lawrie incident? See, that was the ump's doing. He got mad because on an obvious ball 4, the enitre world didn't hold its collective breath to hear him say what we all knew. Lawrie trots down to first before he could render his verdict, so he called it a strike. That's cheating. It's cheating like a spitball is cheating, it's cheating like pine tar use, it's cheating.

    Then here comes another ball four, five feet off the plate, and he calls it a strike. All because Brett Lawrie can't think for himself. So the umpire cheats again. All so his little feelings aren't hurt, he gives an out that should not be rewarded.

    Brett Lawrie shouldn't show the umpire up, right? But- how many times do you see an umpire give a very exaggerated called third strike call. Like, he's almost happy to do it. Is that not showing the batter up? Bang bang plays at first are the same. It's like watching a theater production.

    OR, could umpires may be human and can't help but raise their emotions on certain plays, maybe like Brett Lawrie can't help walking down to first on an obvious ball four?

    Nobody is there to watch the umpire, if we could replace them with machines we all would, so for me, they need to check the ego at the door, do your best to get the call right and not worry so much about what everybody else thinks.

  7. #81
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Not at the pro level.
    Yes, I absolutely have.

  8. #82
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    .

    Brett Lawrie shouldn't show the umpire up, right? But- how many times do you see an umpire give a very exaggerated called third strike call. Like, he's almost happy to do it. Is that not showing the batter up? Bang bang plays at first are the same. It's like watching a theater production.


    .
    It is called selling a call. In a close play as in a play at first you are taught to sell the call that you saw the play and there is no doubt in your mind you are 100% correct. The same goes with calling a third strike, just standing there and make a nonchalant third strike call does not sell the call to everyone that you saw the pitch and there is no doubt with anyone in your confidence of the call. It has zero to do with showing anyone up, in fact I have never ever heard that accusation before and I have heard alot.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  9. #83
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yes, I absolutely have.
    I dont doubt you but i am curious who and how did you hear it?
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  10. #84
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I dont doubt you but i am curious who and how did you hear it?
    Sitting in the scout seats at GABP, I can't recall who it was, but it was a Braves player in either 2009 or 2010.

  11. #85
    Member traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Not really because it's not a logical extension of an argument maintaining a music intern could play a nursery rhyme to suggest that also means an ump could mock a player.

    That's like suggesting that since an organit can play an enthusiastic tune after a noteworthy play, an ump can therefore hug players.

    You made an inference, but it wasn't a logical extension of the argument.
    That was not your argument. I'll let the record stand, but it is amusing watching you formally defend your own shallow, snarky remark as if you had written a carefully worded treatise.
    "Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"

  12. #86
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Compared to your earlier post stating that because a persons name was not used then it is not an insult?? LOL

    If I were to make the comment in one of your posts that "you are an idiot" but never addressed you by name that would be ok to you but if i was to say "Hebron Cougar is an idiot" then that is not ok?? LOL

    Regardless of this tripe, whether a person addresses me as George, Blue, Ump or anything else, if they say something demeaning such as above then any umpire worth his grain in salt will ejected them. That is just the way it is.
    Whatever you say.............officer. Or your honor. (chest swells with pride)


    That's just the way it is for umpires that want to be part of the show. I've seen a lot of umpires. From both sides of the game. The majority are great. And some are there to get some attention. Heck, I've seen some that I'm 100% sure have what I call "short man's disease". Some are out to prove they are great, and want to be part of the show with their antics, or balk calls, or showing up a player (like in the Lawrie case). Some are willing to admit mistakes (Jim Joyce comes to mind), and some aren't (Joe West comes to mind). It happens on every level. I gave every umpire the respect the position deserved (I was tossed once in a 9 year head coaching career, at my request). Most gave it back. Just like there are ways to act like a coach, there are ways to act like an umpire. Coaches or umpires should never be part of the show. It may have been within the rules for the organist to get tossed, but the umpire is making himself the butt of a bigger joke for doing it.

  13. #87
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    That was not your argument. I'll let the record stand, but it is amusing watching you formally defend your own shallow, snarky remark as if you had written a carefully worded treatise.
    I'm very happy to let the record speak.

    The Ump was wrong.

    Twice.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #88
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    "Three Blind Mice" is just a bad song, regardless of the circumstances. I side with the ump.
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

  15. #89
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    "Three Blind Mice" is just a bad song, regardless of the circumstances. I side with the ump.
    It worked okay in "Dr. No."
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  16. #90
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Umpire tosses the Music intern in minor league game

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    That is an excellent point!!! There is no better example of drawing attention to an umpire than an organist playing something on the organ to mock him. .
    I think before each game, the organist should hand the umpire his list of songs to played, much like the managers hand the umpire a lineup card.
    When we have the umpire approving all music at the stadium, all messages on the Jumbotron, etc it will improve the game.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

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