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Thread: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

  1. #1
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Probably, without hesitation, the two most dominant relievers in the game today. So if you tried removing any bias from the equation, as a neutral GM, who would you rather have? Age and contract status can obviously be taken into consideration.

    Code:
    Player		IP		ERA		WHIP		K		K/9		BB		BB/9		HR		HR/9		GB/FB		OPS		FIP
    																								
    Kimbrel		40.0		1.35		0.65		67		15.08		10		2.25		2		0.45		1.76		0.350		1.26
    Chapman		51.2		1.39		0.72		96		16.72		14		2.44		3		0.52		0.97		0.427		1.11
    I think I'd take Aroldis, but man is it ever close.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Those OPS numbers literally made me laugh out loud.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Aroldis in a landslide due to the starter potential.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Those OPS numbers literally made me laugh out loud.
    They are quite obscene.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Aroldis in a landslide due to the starter potential.
    Me too.

  7. #6
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    For solely as a closer, I would take Kimbrel, barely. Given that the two are both insanely dominant, give me the guy who gets a lot more groundballs when guys do manage to put the ball in play.

    Overall though, Chapman still could wind up starting at some point in the future and that makes him incredibly more valuable.

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    I don't know why, but your opening post is stretched far across my screen in weird fashion.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I don't know why, but your opening post is stretched far across my screen in weird fashion.
    When you use the code tag, it doesn't abide by the normal "return to the next line" thing. It just stretches and stretches unless you modify it yourself.

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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Only thing I would want to do is look at Kimbrel's distribution. Aroldis gave up everything for the year in the span of 5 games or something like that. I think that would lean me slightly towards him, but man, either one is great to have.

  11. #10
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    The batter can guess correctly on a fastball nine times out of ten against Chapman and he's still struck out a historic, unfathomable amount. For that, he gets my vote.

  12. #11
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    The batter can guess correctly on a fastball nine times out of ten against Chapman and he's still struck out a historic, unfathomable amount. For that, he gets my vote.
    Craig Kimbrel has a more valuable fastball....

    Here is the reliever Top 10 in fastball by value per 100 fastballs thrown:

    Code:
    Name	        wFB/C
    Craig Kimbrel	2.64
    Robbie Ross	2.52
    Pedro Strop	2.52
    Ernesto Frieri	2.14
    Darren Oliver	2.14
    Sean Burnett	2.11
    Mark Lowe	2.00
    Aroldis Chapman	1.97
    Rafael Soriano	1.95
    Brian Duensing	1.91

  13. #12
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Craig Kimbrel has a more valuable fastball....

    Here is the reliever Top 10 in fastball by value per 100 fastballs thrown:

    Code:
    Name	        wFB/C
    Craig Kimbrel	2.64
    Robbie Ross	2.52
    Pedro Strop	2.52
    Ernesto Frieri	2.14
    Darren Oliver	2.14
    Sean Burnett	2.11
    Mark Lowe	2.00
    Aroldis Chapman	1.97
    Rafael Soriano	1.95
    Brian Duensing	1.91
    I think that is, in a way, part of superdude's point. After all, the effectiveness of Chapman's fastball is going to be somewhat subdued simply because rarely will a hitter ever be taken by surprise when thrown a fastball. As he said, nine times out of 10, you can correctly guess when it's coming. That is going to naturally make it less of an effective pitch to some degree.

    If they started utilizing a third pitch for Chapman and/or better mixed up his pitches, I imagine you'd see his fastball second-to-none on that list.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Craig Kimbrel has a more valuable fastball....

    Here is the reliever Top 10 in fastball by value per 100 fastballs thrown:

    Code:
    Name	        wFB/C
    Craig Kimbrel	2.64
    Robbie Ross	2.52
    Pedro Strop	2.52
    Ernesto Frieri	2.14
    Darren Oliver	2.14
    Sean Burnett	2.11
    Mark Lowe	2.00
    Aroldis Chapman	1.97
    Rafael Soriano	1.95
    Brian Duensing	1.91
    So Kimbrel has a definitively better fastball and breaking pitch, but has inferior numbers? These newfangled statistics just never add up to me.

  15. #14
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    So Kimbrel has a definitively better fastball and breaking pitch, but has inferior numbers? These newfangled statistics just never add up to me.
    Kimbrel has a better ERA, better WHIP and a better walk rate. Lower strikeout rate, higher groundball rate, lower HR rate.

  16. #15
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Aroldis or Kimbrel?

    I don't think that Kimbrel has hit a slump like Chapman did in June. But when both are at their absolute best, as dominant as both of them are... I would give Chapman the edge. When he's on top of his game, he's as unhittable as anyone I've ever seen.


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