Pirates fans are livid

[_Sir_Charles_]

I'm a huge fan of Phillips, the man and the player, but that being said...Far East is exactly right. I know he likes to have fun while he plays the game, but he most definitely goes for the flashy play when it isn't needed. Those barehanded turns, he hasn't botched one yet, but that's an error just waiting to happen IMO. He follows perfect fundamentals on grounders hit to him (down on one knee to block the ball and the area) but it's else where when he lets the fundamentals fly out the window in favor of the flashy/stylish play.

Sure, it's nit picking...but it's still accurate.

[traderumor]

There's a BIG difference between being a hothead on the mound, and being a racist. I really doubt that Hughes is so low on brain cells that he'd call BP a racial slur, on the field, in front of his teammates and the entire crowd.

You don't have to be a racist to make a race based insult. That is really all I was saying in response to the Pirates "that's just not Jared" excuse.

And I really don't know why some continue to think that only dumb people have dumb reactions. There are highly intelligent successful people who verbally, mentally, and physically abuse their family every day, for instance. So, in this incident, BP or Hughes intelligence is not really a factor.

[traderumor]

I'm a huge fan of Phillips, the man and the player, but that being said...Far East is exactly right. I know he likes to have fun while he plays the game, but he most definitely goes for the flashy play when it isn't needed. Those barehanded turns, he hasn't botched one yet, but that's an error just waiting to happen IMO. He follows perfect fundamentals on grounders hit to him (down on one knee to block the ball and the area) but it's else where when he lets the fundamentals fly out the window in favor of the flashy/stylish play.

Sure, it's nit picking...but it's still accurate.

I'm sure Bob Cousy's behind the back passes were considered unnecessary also. Even if there was some hot dog in BP's plays, so what? This is entertainment, he has the talent to do it, and doesn't cost his team doing it, so I ask, so what?

[cincrazy]

You don't have to be a racist to make a race based insult. That is really all I was saying in response to the Pirates "that's just not Jared" excuse.

And I really don't know why some continue to think that only dumb people have dumb reactions. There are highly intelligent successful people who verbally, mentally, and physically abuse their family every day, for instance. So, in this incident, BP or Hughes intelligence is not really a factor.

I just think if you're going to publicy call a man a racist on Twitter, don't you think you should talk to him about it first? Or have some form of proof? Phillips is a drama queen, and an instigator. It's why people hated him in Montreal and Cleveland. He's a showoff. He's like Chad Johnson. Things are great. Until his performance isn't meeting its normal standards. Then he'll more than likely be a major pain in the rear end.

I like Brandon. I respect his ability. But it's not hard to understand why some fans, and other players, hate him. In hindsight, Yadier had every reason to get in his face after BP tapped his shin guards. That's not going to be a popular opinion around here, but it's how I feel.

Bottom line: BP shouldn't be making accusations he can't back up. If he did indeed say something racially charged, he should've confronted him right there on the field. All of this just blows my mind. The umpires would've heard SOMETHING. Pirates players would've heard SOMETHING. Brandon's teammates would've heard SOMETHING. This is just Brandon being Brandon. Overreacting and making a total mess of a situation.

[Brutus]

I'm amazed that in an era where so many people vent their affairs and complaints on Facebook and Twitter, if an athlete does it, he's considered a drama queen.

Quite a double standard our society has written these days.

No offense, cincrazy, but Phillips didn't start the war with the Cardinals. That was going long before Phillips said or did anything. He sure didn't instigate anything with Hughes. It was hughes that leveled an aggressive forearm on a tag and then plunked Phillips, proceeding to shout at him after Phillips tossed the ball back.

Is Phillips guilty of being outspoken? Absolutely. But good grief, he hasn't really said or done anything remotely severe. He's simply easy to read. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. Funny thing is, most of you say the same things about other teams and players here on a message board. Again... double standards.

[Tom Servo]

I don't think BP is a drama queen or an instigator. The Cardinals thing is literally the only other example of 'instigating' he has done.

[cincrazy]

I'm amazed that in an era where so many people vent their affairs and complaints on Facebook and Twitter, if an athlete does it, he's considered a drama queen.

Quite a double standard our society has written these days.

No offense, cincrazy, but Phillips didn't start the war with the Cardinals. That was going long before Phillips said or did anything. He sure didn't instigate anything with Hughes. It was hughes that leveled an aggressive forearm on a tag and then plunked Phillips, proceeding to shout at him after Phillips tossed the ball back.

Is Phillips guilty of being outspoken? Absolutely. But good grief, he hasn't really said or done anything remotely severe. He's simply easy to read. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. Funny thing is, most of you say the same things about other teams and players here on a message board. Again... double standards.

I'm not saying he had no reason to be upset. He should've been. But let's not act like the Reds weren't complicit in this situation. Chapman almost took Cutch's head off. Harrisson was hit. Maybe they were accidents. Maybe they weren't. But that's the game.

Phillips getting hit was part of the game. Him claiming that Hughes is a "racist" is something else entirely. It's attacking his character. I think Hughes is a jerk, and Navarro should've punched him in the face for the shove. I also thought he was a jerk for hitting BP then giving the tough man glare. But there's NO evidence whatsoever that he said or did anything racist. And that, to me, is what we're arguing here.

Did he or didn't he say something racist? One minute he did, the next minute everything is fine and it was just a misunderstanding, and then it goes back to "it's not over yet." Drama. Queen. He's in the news. He's happy. End of story for me. I know many of you feel differently, and that's fine.

Marge Schott, now she was a racist. A deplorable person that lasted in the game way too long. Ty Cobb, racist. There are facts to back that up. Hughes? No evidence to back that up.

[cincrazy]

BP isn't a bad guy, but he's not the angel many make him out to be. There are two sides to him, and one is a lot uglier than the other. I don't think either side should be ignored.

[jojo]

BP isn't a bad guy, but he's not the angel many make him out to be. There are two sides to him, and one is a lot uglier than the other. I don't think either side should be ignored.

Pretty much.

He's a valuable player but he is also a hotdog and a drama queen.

[Roy Tucker]

BP isn't a bad guy, but he's not the angel many make him out to be. There are two sides to him, and one is a lot uglier than the other. I don't think either side should be ignored.

Like most of the rest of us.

[cincrazy]

Like most of the rest of us.

Absolutely. I never meant to insinuate otherwise. He's human. But a lot of people treat athletes like deities and refuse to criticize them no matter what. IMO, BP deserves criticism here. His petulant behavior gets old at times. If Hughes did indeed say something racially tinged, he should be banned from the game for life. Seriously. There's no room for that crap. But from absolutely all indications, there's no evidence to show this happened.

[vaticanplum]

Again, for the umpteenth time, Phillips' Hardball interview did not come until after the Pirates had already said it was Hughes that he was referring to. There were no secrets by that time. That interview came AFTER Pittsburgh disclosed it.

Look at the time stamp. The interview was posted Wed. Sep. 12, which was the second day after Phillips' tweet went out (Monday night). It says he was interviewed Tuesday night. The Pirates had already acknowledged he was referring to Hughes earlier in the day on Tuesday.

By the time the interview took place, the cat was already out of the bag. There was really no reason for Phillips to deny anything. The Pirates took that out of his hands.

You keep missing the point here. The Pirates had already said it was Hughes on Tuesday. When Phillips was interviewed, there was no mystery. The interviewer may or may not have known that when he interviewed Phillips, but everyone else already did.

Timeline recap:

Monday night after the game, Phillips tweets about racist comments; does not say who it was

Early Tuesday morning, Phillips and Hughes "clear the air" on the phone

Tuesday morning, the Pirates respond to the vague allegation by acknowledging it was Hughes and there is no evidence he made such comments

Early Tuesday evening before the game, Phillips is interviewed on Hardball. The cat is out of the bag thanks to the Pirates' comments earlier in the day, and Hughes is mentioned by name

</end timeline>

I never once "missed" the Hardball interview. The point was that Phillips' comments about Hughes on the interview were post-mortem. Pitt already spilled the beans earlier that day. His mentioning Hughes was irrelevant by that time.

I'm not missing the point at all and I'm quite familiar with the timeline of events. I made that clear very early in the thread. It's been stated numerous times in this thread that Phillips *never* directly accused a particular player. Not before or after the tweets, not before or after the Pirates said anything. Just never did it. This is not true. Apparently you understand this, though this was not clear in many of your earlier posts. Many others were apparently flatly unaware of it. There are many on this board who quite clearly believed the entire basis of everything was the tweets alone and that Phillips's involvement had ended there.

Phillips started it with the vague tweets, then was pushed on it, as naturally he was going to be, having baited the press. Then he named a specific player. One of my major points here is that if you bait the press with something as serious as racism -- generally or specific -- yes, you're going to be pushed on it. You're *asking* for that. And if the (directly named) perpetrator believes himself to be innocent of the charge, yes, of course he's going to be upset and respond, and his organization is too. If Phillips believes he was the victim of racism, I don't begrudge him speaking about it. But nor do I begrudge Hughes defending himself if he believes he didn't do it. Phillips took it to the press first, period. He did it in a general sense, opening the door for more questions, including requests for a name, which he obliged. There's been a back-and-forth exchange, and you can condescend and lay out the order of those events all you want, but by making it public in the first place, Phillips is the one who made it a public matter. And by granting further interviews and naming names, he ensured that it remained a public matter. Everything fell in line as a response to that.

[Brutus]

I'm not saying he had no reason to be upset. He should've been. But let's not act like the Reds weren't complicit in this situation. Chapman almost took Cutch's head off. Harrisson was hit. Maybe they were accidents. Maybe they weren't. But that's the game.

Phillips getting hit was part of the game. Him claiming that Hughes is a "racist" is something else entirely. It's attacking his character. I think Hughes is a jerk, and Navarro should've punched him in the face for the shove. I also thought he was a jerk for hitting BP then giving the tough man glare. But there's NO evidence whatsoever that he said or did anything racist. And that, to me, is what we're arguing here.

Did he or didn't he say something racist? One minute he did, the next minute everything is fine and it was just a misunderstanding, and then it goes back to "it's not over yet." Drama. Queen. He's in the news. He's happy. End of story for me. I know many of you feel differently, and that's fine.

Marge Schott, now she was a racist. A deplorable person that lasted in the game way too long. Ty Cobb, racist. There are facts to back that up. Hughes? No evidence to back that up.

McCutchen and the Pirates were extremely upset for being hit. Doesn't Phillips have the same right too? Phillips didn't go yelling profanities or slamming equipment around in the dugout/clubhouse like McCutchen did. Does that make him a bigger man?

The truth is, none of us will ever know if Hughes did or didn't say the things he was accused of. Some people will say that means Phillips shouldn't have said it. But he didn't accuse Hughes specifically. That was done by the Pirates the next day. Only then did Phillips ever admit he was pointing the finger at Hughes.

Suggesting someone made a racist comment and specifically accusing someone of being racist are two entirely different animals. Phillips is only guilty of the former, not the latter. If Pittsburgh had not come out and made a bigger issue of it, that tweet may have died without any further 'instigation.'

Anyhow, yeah he's not an angel. So what? Like I said, how many people here vent on message boards and social media? Most of us? So why is he any different for expressing his emotions than the rest of us?

[cincrazy]

McCutchen and the Pirates were extremely upset for being hit. Doesn't Phillips have the same right too? Phillips didn't go yelling profanities or slamming equipment around in the dugout/clubhouse like McCutchen did. Does that make him a bigger man?

The truth is, none of us will ever know if Hughes did or didn't say the things he was accused of. Some people will say that means Phillips shouldn't have said it. But he didn't accuse Hughes specifically. That was done by the Pirates the next day. Only then did Phillips ever admit he was pointing the finger at Hughes.

Suggesting someone made a racist comment and specifically accusing someone of being racist are two entirely different animals. Phillips is only guilty of the former, not the latter. If Pittsburgh had not come out and made a bigger issue of it, that tweet may have died without any further 'instigation.'

Anyhow, yeah he's not an angel. So what? Like I said, how many people here vent on message boards and social media? Most of us? So why is he any different for expressing his emotions than the rest of us?

To me, accusing someone of making a racist comment, and calling them a racist, is the same thing. I guess we can agree to disagree there. How in the world can you accuse someone of making a racially-tinged comment and not expect your comment to be construed as calling them a racist?

And OF COURSE the Pirates made a big deal of it. If I have a buddy, and he's accused of saying something like that and I know for a fact he didn't say it, you bet your butt I'm disputing the charges.

Once again, I never said BP didn't have a right to be upset over being hit. To insinuate otherwise is false, since I already stated in another post he had a right to be ticked. Nor did I excuse the actions of Cutch or Hughes in this whole situation. I'm not debating their on-field scuffle. Accusing a man of making a racist comment is about as serious as it gets. One minute you're on Twitter, the next minute you're giving an interview saying everything is cool, then the next day "it isn't over yet." I mean what is it?

Phillips can't seem to make his mind up on the situation. Maybe he doesn't understand what labeling someone as a racist can do to their charcter and career.

[Brutus]

People only assumed (correctly, as it turns out) that it was Hughes, but that was never said by Phillips until after they 'cleared the air.'

Apparently you understand this, though this was not clear in many of your earlier posts.

That was my original comment, so yes understood it from the beginning and thought I was pretty clear about it from the above comment. They cleared the air Tuesday morning and the Pirates mentioned it publicly. That was my point from the get-go.