Pirates fans are livid

[George Anderson]

So I read that article, and see what Hughes seems to be claiming to say, and while I understand what he claims to have said is not "racial," I certainly wouldn't try and defend what someone is capable of doing when they start dropping f bombs all over the place. This is actually the first time I've seen the plunking, and it is really humorous considering the Pirates taking exception clear back to McCutchen getting drilled, in a close game, in the 9th and still trying to get even. THEN, "while I didn't call him one of them there racist names, I did call him a bleep bleep," which is offensive to ANYONE. So, if the truth is that is as BAD as it got, still, don't kill the messenger who may have heard or thought he heard racist remarks, even though he only called him that other bleep bleep name.

It just floors me all over again how anyone could deem Hughes actions defensible on the premise "well, maybe he didn't say 'boy' and btw, BP is a hotdog. Little surprise he embellished here." Just amazing.

I am simply defending Hughes against these baseless accusations he made racist statements. Hughes very well may be a jerk but just because he seem like an ass and behaves like one on the field in no way makes him a racist. Lets repeat one more time, other than what Phillips thought he heard, no one and let me repeat no heard anything racist coming out of his mouth and there were many within earshot that would have heard it.

If I am not mistaken are you not an attorney?? If so do you really think a case against Hughes being a racist would be held up in court? If you think so just where is the evidence? Behaving like an ass on the mound is not evidence that you are a racist.

[George Anderson]

Fact is quality guys like Larkin and Phillips get beat up all the time around here and guys like Pete get their butts kissed.

I'm better than this??

Nah... I'm a prick who calls a spade a spade

Adam Dunn, Jay Bruce, Dave Miley, Drew Stubbs and so many other players that were white are also beat up on this board. One of the things I like about this board is 90% of the Org for the most part love Pete the player but also regard him as a person to be the turd we all know he is. Reds fans in general kiss Pete's butt but this board for the most part does not.

I think you are attempting to paint the critics of Phillips in this instance as being racially motivated and it is not.

[westofyou]

Adam Dunn, Jay Bruce, Dave Miley, Drew Stubbs and so many other players that were white are also beat up on this board. One of the things I like about this board is 90% of the Org for the most part love Pete the player but also regard him as a person to be the turd we all know he is. Reds fans in general kiss Pete's butt but this board for the most part does not.

I think you are attempting to paint the critics of Phillips in this instance as being racially motivated and it is not.

None are called "hot dogs" "flashy" or "Punks" either though, also not suggested was that they "just shut up" or that they are drama queens.

It's really not an apples to apples comparison with those guys from where I sit.

Oh and yes they got beat up (and some still do)

[membengal]

You mean like because he's from the west side?

Or this??

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...4266/index.htm




Fact is quality guys like Larkin and Phillips get beat up all the time around here and guys like Pete get their butts kissed.

I'm better than this??

Nah... I'm a prick who calls a spade a spade

Applause.

[AtomicDumpling]

There is a time and place for chasing the runner and tagging him out. To assume that it is always quicker to toss the ball to 2nd is wrong. Anytime a runner is forced to run in and field a ball its often quicker to tag the runner running to 2nd over flipping the ball to 2nd. Not only is the runner running into you but depending on your momentum its could be an awkward throw to 2nd.

Phillips does his fair share of hot dog things over the course of a season. I remember one play against Detroit where he caught a bunch of flack for trying to "hot dog" a bouncing ball. Watching it live it looked like the only play he had was to try and make that hot dog play. He may have some "hot dog" in him but he is one of the best at getting balls that many don't think he can get. On a nightly basis you see highlights of him making a good to spectacular play.

Who is assuming it is always quicker to toss the ball to 2nd? I haven't seen anyone type that, certainly not me.

As I made clear when I described these plays, the plays in question were easy-peazy routine double-play balls hit right at Phillips. No charging in to field the ball. No having to hurry up to make a bang bang play. Nope, these were run of the mill tailor made ground ball double plays that Phillips turned into an adventure by chasing the runner. Otherwise why would I have mentioned them? It was an additional example of the topic being discussed by previous posters at the time. People were discussing ways that Phillips has at times made plays more difficult than he had to, presumably to elicit some extra oohs and ahhhs. I merely added one more to the list and a couple folks got all bent out of shape over it for some reason.

And yes Phillips makes a lot of difficult plays. That goes without saying. He is a great defensive player as all Reds fans are aware. Nobody has claimed otherwise. Phillips is a joy to watch in the field. Once in awhile he takes the hot dogging a little bit too far for some peoples' tastes, that's all.

The reason Phillips' hotdogging came up in this thread is because the Pirates broadcasters were talking about it during the games last week. This thread is about the Pirates being upset with the Reds. Pirate players and fans are not in love with Brandon Phillips right now. It is not hard to see why Brandon's antics would rub opposing fans and players the wrong way, heck he even slightly irritates some Reds fans just a little bit on occasion. Couple that with what the Pirates believe to be Brandon's false racism accusation against Jared Hughes and now we have a real dispute to fan the flames of what was already a sore spot with the Pirates. Brandon's flamboyant personality has endeared him to Reds fans, but it has also created a growing list of teams around the league that don't like him. He is public enemy #1 in St. Louis and now Pittsburgh too. I don't see it as a real problem that the Reds need to address, but it is something to be aware of.

[traderumor]

I am simply defending Hughes against these baseless accusations he made racist statements. Hughes very well may be a jerk but just because he seem like an ass and behaves like one on the field in no way makes him a racist. Lets repeat one more time, other than what Phillips thought he heard, no one and let me repeat no heard anything racist coming out of his mouth and there were many within earshot that would have heard it.

If I am not mistaken are you not an attorney?? If so do you really think a case against Hughes being a racist would be held up in court? If you think so just where is the evidence? Behaving like an ass on the mound is not evidence that you are a racist.

No, I'm not an attorney. Also, there is no case against Hughes being defamed as a "racist." This is all about did he or did he not make racial remarks. Whether or not he is "a racist" is not really the issue here, as far as I'm concerned. However, if he did make that mistake, it should carry some pretty serious consequences.

But, if this were tried, since it seems to be circumstantial, I imagine his character would be examined, which is the angle I've been taking...call someone a bleep bleeper, give a little bully shove to the opponent, plunk their guy with a purpose pitch, you are probably capable of uttering "boy" in the same tirade.

[AtomicDumpling]

Fact is quality guys like Larkin and Phillips get beat up all the time around here and guys like Pete get their butts kissed.

I'm better than this??

Nah... I'm a prick who calls a spade a spade

Adam Dunn, Jay Bruce, Dave Miley, Drew Stubbs *and so many other players that were white are also *beat up on this board. One of the things *I like about this board is 90% of the Org for the most part love Pete the player but also regard him as a person to be the turd we all know he is. Reds fans in general kiss Pete's butt but this board for the most part does not.




I think you are *attempting to paint the critics of Phillips in this instance as being racially motivated and it is not.

None are called "hot dogs" "flashy" or "Punks" either though, also not suggested was that they "just shut up" or that they are drama queens.

It's really not an apples to apples comparison with those guys from where I sit.

Oh and yes they got beat up (and some still do)

Are you implying that people who say Phillips is a hot dog are being racist? Honest question, I can't tell if this is your intent or not.

[reds44]

Thank you WOY for having this conversation for once, instead of me.

[Brutus]

Did Phillips think he heard it one way or did he instead happen to make up something he wanted to hear to further inflame the situation ?

The umpires and both teams and anyone remotely close to the incident were interviewed and no one heard anything racist. There is no evidence what so ever to back up Phillips accusation.

Lets just cut to the chase and admit Phillips made the whole thing up.

Pete is a punk for cheating on his taxes, cheating on his wife and oh so many other things and Phillips is a punk for lying about and disparaging the Pirates . I'd say thats a fair analysis.

Aren't you accusing Phillips of making up accusations of racism? Isn't that just about as bad as you suggesting he's accusing someone else of making racist accusation?

You're calling him a liar without any proof. George, I like you, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

[George Anderson]

But, if this were tried, since it seems to be circumstantial, I imagine his character would be examined, which is the angle I've been taking...call someone a bleep bleeper, you are probably capable of uttering "boy" in the same tirade.

So if someone curses and calls someone names then they are capable of spouting racist phrases also? If that is the case then 99% of the worlds population is capable of spewing racist phrases because in all likelihood 99% of the worlds population have cursed and called someone names. However it bears repeating there is absolutely no proof Hughes made a racist comment.

This whole argument is silly. There is no proof whatsoever that Hughes made a racial remark but yet there are those who keep claiming even though there is no evidence we need to keep attacking him. WOY is notorious for using the phrase "pitchforks and torches" when people are unfairly attacking someone and the attacks on Hughes in this thread are a perfect example.

From what I can tell Hughes is no saint but to keep insinuating he made racist comments when there is zero evidence that he did so is just mind boggling.

[Brutus]

Didn't hear ≠ didn't happen

This needs to be repeated.

Because allegedly others didn't hear it, therefore Phillips is apparently a liar.

[George Anderson]

You're calling him a liar without any proof. George, I like you, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Once Mr. Phillips provides evidence of a witness, a tape recording, a video or even a earth worm that happened to be on the pitchers mound when it happened to show that Hughes or another player made a racist statement then I will stop calling him a liar. Once Pinnochio Phillips does this I will gladly rescind this claim and humbly apologize.

Oh and I like you to Brutus!!

[Brutus]

Once Mr. Phillips provides evidence of a witness, a tape recording, a video or even a earth worm that happened to be on the pitchers mound when it happened to show that Hughes or another player made a racist statement then I will stop calling him a liar. Once Pinnochio Phillips does this I will gladly rescind this claim and humbly apologize.

Oh and I like you to Brutus!!

I'm still trying to understand this, though. If I'm understanding you correctly, unless he can provide evidence, does that mean he's lying? Isn't it possible he simply thought he heard something but didn't? Or, maybe it's truly possible that in all the confusion, with the umpires busy giving warnings and the players looking around, maybe Phillips is the only one that heard Hughes because the two were looking at one another? There are other explanations than him lying about it.

The whole premise here is that you're upset he's accusing someone of being racist without any proof. So why, then, would you call someone a liar without proof?

[westofyou]

Are you implying that people who say Phillips is a hot dog are being racist? Honest question, I can't tell if this is your intent or not.

I have no proof that anyone is being racist and I don't see anyone overtly being racist.

I just seem to see a lot of... he does, this, he does that, he's that, he's this BUT... he's a Red and therefore it can be dealt with.

Folks demand that the players be human on and off the field and when they do display human actions on the field, often the fans turn around and slam him if the human foibles they choose to display (pride, demonstrative play, flashy play for the sake of being flashy) don't fit in their notion of what they want to see from the players on their team.

Is it coincidence that some of the star players who are black get the business more than the boring Stubb's and Miley's do?

Probably not too much, as they tend to speak out to the press and fans more than the other types do (Larkin about the turf, the trade of Shaw, Phillips with Molina, Phillips with the Pirates)

But it happens more than it should, in my opinion that is.

[Always Red]

Funny part about this conversation is that when he came up, Rose was nearly universally disliked by the vets on the team, for having taken popular Don Blasingame's (Blazer) spot.

Except for the minority players, especially Robby and Vada Pinson, who took the rookie Rose under their wing.