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Thread: Goodness gracious (Astros)

  1. #61
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    Wow, that gives a whole new meaning to attempting to drop a bunt down.

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  3. #62
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    People aren't getting it?

    3 straight 100 loss seasons, The Giants have one all time, the Reds one all time. The Angels none, the Rockies none. Teams that lose 100 games in 3 consecutive seasons are an abomination.

    I get that.

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  5. #63
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    People aren't getting it?

    3 straight 100 loss seasons, The Giants have one all time, the Reds one all time. The Angels none, the Rockies none. Teams that lose 100 games in 3 consecutive seasons are an abomination.

    I get that.
    Even if the Astros improve by 10 games next year ...... they'll still lose 100 games. Even if they improve by another 10 the following year and another 10 the year after that, they still wouldn't have a winning record.

    By the time the Astros dig themselves out of the giant hole they have put themselves in, the youth movement will all be hitting their arbitration / free agent years and it will be time to start the whole 'rebuilding process' over again.

  6. #64
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    Even if the Astros improve by 10 games next year ...... they'll still lose 100 games. Even if they improve by another 10 the following year and another 10 the year after that, they still wouldn't have a winning record.

    By the time the Astros dig themselves out of the giant hole they have put themselves in, the youth movement will all be hitting their arbitration / free agent years and it will be time to start the whole 'rebuilding process' over again.
    I don't think you realize just how much money they are going to have to spend when they choose to spend it. When the youth movement gets there, they are going to be able to pay any free agent they want. And then any other free agent they want. They have talked about $150M payrolls when they get their prospects up there.

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  8. #65
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    People aren't getting it?

    3 straight 100 loss seasons, The Giants have one all time, the Reds one all time. The Angels none, the Rockies none. Teams that lose 100 games in 3 consecutive seasons are an abomination.

    I get that.
    That's not what I meant WoY and I think you know that. 2010 & 2011. Look at the state of the MLB team AND the farm. 2010 they finally showed the signs I'd been seeing on the horizon for 5 years. Nearly a 90 loss year. And they still had those "stars" there. But the problem wasn't just a rapidly aging roster with zero pitching, it was the depleted farm system. It ranked as the worst system in the majors (or second worst) for like 4 or 5 years straight. There was nothing down there left to trade to help the big club so their solution was to constantly bring in short-term FA's making the payroll skyrocket and further shortening the window of contention.

    2011 was the first 100 loss season. But their farm system shot up to middle of the pack with the acquisitions from the trades. Now, they're a top 5 farm system with winning clubs at every level. They've got solid top prospects at all 4 IF positions, Castro at catcher, lots of excellent pitching prospects. 2 to 3 years from now this team will be VERY solid with a ton of payroll room.

    I hate the Astros with a passion. Only the Cubs are above them on my list (Cards are close). But even I have to envy the dramatic turnaround they've taken. I was relishing the thought of them languishing in the cellar for a decade or two. It's stunning the turnover they've done at the ML level and the overhaul at the minor league level.

    Personally, I find it laughable that people are complaining that they're not rebuilding faster. I've never seen a club tear it down and rebuild faster than what I'm seeing here. 2011 and 2012 were the tearing it down seasons (2011 didn't go far enough and Lunhow was brought in to finish it and build it back up). 2013 is the fresh start. And they've got a solid foundation to build on. 2014 should see Singleton (1b), Springer (of), and Cosart (p) up full time. 2015 should see Foltynewicz (p), DeShields (2b), Tropeano (p) up full time. There are quite a few others who should break through those 2 years as well. Most of their top talent is about 3 years away...but it's really good too.

    Add all of that up with the money to sign guys long term AND to bring in FA guys to bolster a roster and it's a great plan. If they continue to draft like they have the past 2-3 years...they could be VERY good. But for now and next season (maybe 2015)...they'll be horrible.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  9. #66
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't think you realize just how much money they are going to have to spend when they choose to spend it. When the youth movement gets there, they are going to be able to pay any free agent they want. And then any other free agent they want. They have talked about $150M payrolls when they get their prospects up there.
    Yep. And they'll have the money to do it, easily.

    Doug, did you think it was possible to turn the farm around as quickly as they did? I sure didn't.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  10. #67
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Yep. And they'll have the money to do it, easily.

    Doug, did you think it was possible to turn the farm around as quickly as they did? I sure didn't.
    Sure, if you make the right deals and draft about as good as you can.

  11. #68
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    They sold off everybody. They didn't attempt a rebuild, they salted the Earth. As far as prospects go, they're stacked. The difference is that their kids that would be in AAA are in the majors getting experience. In a few years the Astros are going to be a wrecking ball in the AL West. Oakland doesn't have the payroll to be good forever, they build to compete for a season or two, then put themselves in a position to rebuild and go for it again a few years down the road.

    The Rangers' better days are behind them. They could continue to be a good or great team, and they certainly have some prospects, but they seem like a team that will try to put off rebuilding as long as possible in order to try to luck their way to a WS. Coming so close so many times, their fans will see it as giving up if they start tearing it down now.

    The Angels are held down by Yankee-esque contracts, but have their overpriced aging players at their decline instead of ever having them at their prime. Which makes giving those contacts out so much more unforgivable than keeping someone like Jeter around when the fans have grown so attached. This organization is a mess. They have Trout. Everyone else around him aren't the players they're being paid to be. Nobody wants Pujols' or Hamilton's contracts.

    The Astros will be able to outspend all of the other teams in their division also. Once they get a base of players who are ready for the majors, they'll be spending money on the FA market and everyone who doesnt understand what they're doing will be talking about what an "incredible comeback" the team has made.

    I'm glad they're in the AL going forward. Houston is going to be a beast. They're in a much better position to complete long term. They aren't screwing around, this is what a real rebuilding effort looks like.
    Last edited by joshua; 09-28-2013 at 12:59 PM.

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  13. #69
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    Re: Goodness gracious (Astros)

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Dusty likes this.


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