Valid point, and I guess part of the reason these discussions are fun. Ultimately, I don't think he gets in, but he's definitely of similar company to Tim Brown and Isaac Bruce, two guys also on the cusp.Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!
WR seems a tough position to be elected into the HOF. Lots of interesting choices and snubs.
One thing going for Wayne is the fact Marvin Harrison probably won't get in now because of how he ended up being a scumbag after his playing career ended. Wayne might be the Peyton-Colt receiver to get in.
Razor Shines (10-10-2014)
Wayne is good, he has the numbers that stack up nicely. He played in the premier passing offense with the premier passing QB of his generation. I think he ultimately gets in because his numbers are very good. I also don't think it hurts his association with Manning.
Alledgely a scumbag, no charges were ever brought and he is a virtual lock for the HOF probably on the next vote.
When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.
What a game for the Colts.
I'm still not sure that the D is this good, but they look improved this year and Werner is doing a great job filling in for Mathis. The O-Line is vastly improved. T-Rich is still not great but he has improved. This seems to be Luck's year as he is starting to look like Peyton in his prime even though it's only his 3rd season. I'm still concerned about the turnovers and even penalties. Seems like the Colts always have more than the opposition and that's not going to fly in January.
I don't know if this year but the future sure is bright.
Razor Shines (10-19-2014)
Damn. That was impressive.
They beat the (insert whatever term you wish) out of the Bengals. I didn't expect the Bengals to win but thought they would perform better. If the D plays like that they are scary good. I would rank Luck second among the new wave of QB's behind Rodgers. I do however think that the whole next generation is a step below what Manning and Brady have been for a decade and a half now. I do think that when those guys finally exit stage left, you will realize how good they actually were.
I'm not sure if I agree with this. Luck is in his 3rd year....he didn't even have a decent offensive line until this year. I believe he took more sacks than any other QB in the league his first year and maybe last year too. A lot of injuries last year and a poor defense the first 2 years. This year, he is leading the league in pretty much all QB categories (and that includes Manning and Brady). He also has had 5 straight games of at least 300+ yards passing (tying Manning's team record in 2009). I think what makes me think that Luck can be in a similar conversation someday is what he is doing so young into his career. Did you watch Peyton the first few years? He was awful to watch his rookie year (whereas Luck took his team to the playoffs with a bunch of mostly unknowns). Peyton made improvements each year, but it was until about his 6th season that he really took that "next step" if you will. I just feel like developmentally, Luck is ahead of where Peyton was at a similar age.
I'm not anointing Luck the next Manning or Brady yet. He has a lot to prove and needs to do it over many years before you can be in that conversation.
dubc47834 (10-20-2014),Revering4Blue (10-20-2014)
For the first decade Manning and Brady played defenses were actually allowed to play defense. Comparing numbers now to a decade ago really isn't an apples and apples comparison.
I think Luck will be the best of the new breed and will be a top tier QB for the next decade of his career. I don't think the Colts will be as dominant as they were during Manning's hey day. I don't think Luck is that good. Its not really a knock on Luck, just a belief that when all is said and done and Manning and Brady retire, you will look back and say those may have been the two greatest QB's of all time.
I think the Colts have a chance to be more dominant than they were during the Manning years, the new philosophy is not to spend 70% of the cap on offense like it was during that time. The Colts defense was average at best during the PM years while now they have a real chance to be a top 10 defense and it seems that the new regime actually cares about special teams which was a disaster during Mannings years.
When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.
Hoosier Red (10-20-2014),Revering4Blue (10-20-2014)
Both Manning and Brady benefited from having great O-Lines during their careers and took minimal hits. Luck is finally enjoying that as well this year. He is going head to head with Brady and Manning from a stats perspective currently and is actually beating them both statistically. I know the sample size is small and again, I'm not saying he's on par or better than those guys. However, I think it's fair to say he has a chance at being as good as those guys when it's all said and done. Even if the league has changed, Luck is ahead of where those guys were developmentally. Luck is on pace yards wise to be top 3 for a single season. And it's his 3rd year!
"Average Defense" is being very generous though I agree with your larger point here. They were usually in the bottom half in most categories outside of sacks. The year they won the Super Bowl they had a poor defense but for some reason it came together in the playoffs.
Wasn't that the year Bob Sanders actually did come back for the playoffs?
Yes it was! If there was ever such a thing as an "x-factor" he was it. He just seemed to make everyone there around him better. Without Sanders, the Colts don't win the Super Bowl. I do not think they would've beat the Patriots in that super close game without him.
I've got no problem with that. A step below Manning and Brady is still a HOF career. What Peyton has been able to do even now is simply amazing.
"I know a lot about the law and various other lawyerings."
Hitters who avoid outs are the funnest.
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