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Thread: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

  1. #91
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    In a perfect world, I'd like to see Chapman go to the rotation next year and Arroyo dealt and Bailey/Leake at the backend of the rotation. Arroyo is having a pretty nice season. A bounceback one in which none of us expected I think, but he's getting paid too much for what he provides. A team needing pitching (if he'd accept the trade) may be willing to take him on a 1 year deal after this season. Walt seems to be high on Arroyo though so that may not be an option. Leake has essentially provided the exact same production this year as Arroyo (if looking at WAR) and costs a lot less.

    One possible option...what about trading both Bailey and Leake for a pitcher that is an upgrade who may be under control for a few years to shore up the rotation? You could plug Chapman in and let Arroyo play out his contract and then let Corcino or Cingrani step in after next season.

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  3. #92
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Bailey pitched better last time because Hanigan was behind the plate.

    I'm glad Mez is in Louisville, so we know we get Hanigan today. Mez wasn't cutting it.

    Hopefully we see good Bailey today and bad Wainwright.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  4. #93
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    After watching Leake in person yesterday, I will say that he is one heck of an athlete. The kid is a baseball player.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
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  5. #94
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Bailey pitched better last time because Hanigan was behind the plate.

    I'm glad Mez is in Louisville, so we know we get Hanigan today. Mez wasn't cutting it.

    Hopefully we see good Bailey today and bad Wainwright.
    No, he didn't. Bailey was better than he has ever been before for the first 4 months of this season with Mesoraco behind the plate, and then he hits some struggles and it is Mesoraco's fault?

    Pitchers are good because of them. Not because of the catcher.

  6. #95
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Hanigan has great value to this pitching staff. Mes is still a work in progress, which is where most expected him to be.

    I think Leake still has a lot of potential if he can improve his control slightly. He's a fearless pitcher much like Maddux. Maddux enjoyed seasons w/ high K rates early in his career, but had great success even when they fell dramatically thanks to his fantastic walk rates.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  7. #96
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No, he didn't. Bailey was better than he has ever been before for the first 4 months of this season with Mesoraco behind the plate, and then he hits some struggles and it is Mesoraco's fault?

    Pitchers are good because of them. Not because of the catcher.
    That's your opinion.

    There's a reason Mez is in Louisville.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #97
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    That's your opinion.

    There's a reason Mez is in Louisville.
    I doubt it's primarily due to how he handles the pitching staff.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  9. #98
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    That's your opinion.

    There's a reason Mez is in Louisville.
    Yeah, because good catchers just follow good pitchers around the league regardless of free agency or trades, or injuries to those catchers.... Oh, they don't? And good pitchers still keep pitching like good pitchers? Hmm, very strange.

  10. #99
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yeah, because good catchers just follow good pitchers around the league regardless of free agency or trades, or injuries to those catchers.... Oh, they don't? And good pitchers still keep pitching like good pitchers? Hmm, very strange.
    It's not that black and white. Hanigan likely has the ability to make a good pitcher even better.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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  11. #100
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    It's not that black and white. Hanigan likely has the ability to make a good pitcher even better.
    I agree.... but we are talking about an insanely small amount over a 1 game sample. Over 35 games, yeah, we will probably see a small difference (say 10% in ERA). In 1 game? You probably aren't going to see it.

  12. #101
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I agree.... but we are talking about an insanely small amount over a 1 game sample. Over 35 games, yeah, we will probably see a small difference (say 10% in ERA). In 1 game? You probably aren't going to see it.
    Oh yeah, I'll agree with that.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  13. #102
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yeah, because good catchers just follow good pitchers around the league regardless of free agency or trades, or injuries to those catchers.... Oh, they don't? And good pitchers still keep pitching like good pitchers? Hmm, very strange.
    Reds management sent him to Louisville. That's the reason.

    And I'll take their opinions over yours, sorry.

    And the way Homer is pitching today, it obviously doesn't matter who's catching. I'll take Leake over him. Homer has no out pitch and as Welsh or Brantley have said on many occasions, pitches scared in GABP.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  14. #103
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I agree.... but we are talking about an insanely small amount over a 1 game sample. Over 35 games, yeah, we will probably see a small difference (say 10% in ERA). In 1 game? You probably aren't going to see it.
    You could see it, but it would be next to impossible to differentiate.

    On Mesoraco, I think the Reds basically said they sent him down because of his hitting and lack of confidence more than anything.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #104
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds management sent him to Louisville. That's the reason.

    And I'll take their opinions over yours, sorry.

    And the way Homer is pitching today, it obviously doesn't matter who's catching. I'll take Leake over him. Homer has no out pitch and as Welsh or Brantley have said on many occasions, pitches scared in GABP.
    Homer Baileys slider continues to be one of the best sliders in the game over the last two years. The idea that he doesn't have an out pitch continues to befuddle me. The problem is, his fastball simply isn't a good pitch anymore.

  16. #105
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    Re: If you could only keep one of either Leake or Bailey......

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Homer Baileys slider continues to be one of the best sliders in the game over the last two years. The idea that he doesn't have an out pitch continues to befuddle me. The problem is, his fastball simply isn't a good pitch anymore.
    So we've got a 26 year old pitcher who's lost his fastball. Great.


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