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Thread: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

  1. #1
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    bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    advantages and disadvantages ?

    i'd love to see that little son of a gun run all over them major league cathchers !!


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  3. #2
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    There are zero disadvantages on the fans' side....on the Reds side only getting his time in the bigs would be a negative...but nothing IMO.

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    Member Tuff Nut's Avatar
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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    There are zero disadvantages on the fans' side....on the Reds side only getting his time in the bigs would be a negative...but nothing IMO.
    There is ZERO negative. IF, Pensacola has no chance at capturing the 2nd half title, by Aug, 29th, it should be a no brainer that this kid is brought up............ NOW.....I'm by no means saying he will take a starting positon, but his base running skills, and the experienced gained, can and should go a long way.

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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    Hamilton should be called up. He would instantly be the best bench pinch runner in the league. That could help the Reds win a game or two. I don't see a downside especially with Valdez/Cairo being overwhelmingly below-average.

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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    The one thing this team lacks is overall speed.

  7. #6
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocRed View Post
    The one thing this team lacks is overall speed.
    I think Heisey/Paul/Chapman/Stubbs could take most teams best 4x100 team.

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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    Bring him up on August 31st. If Rolen can't go or any other player gets injured, you have just made Hamilton post-season eligible.

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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23 View Post
    Bring him up on August 31st. If Rolen can't go or any other player gets injured, you have just made Hamilton post-season eligible.
    If you bring him up on the 31st, someone needs to go from the 25 man and then that person would not be eligible for the playoffs (plus most would have to go on waivers). If someone gets injured for the playoffs you still have the ability to replace them. They don't force you to play with 24 if someone gets hurt from the August 31st roster. Now, the replacement must play the same position and the commissioner needs to approve it. Yet no need to add Hamilton to the 25 man playoff roster for injury concerns.

    Now, to the thought Hamilton should replace someone on the playoff roster...Hamilton is simply not ready to play defense at the major league level, and more than likely not ready with his bat. Heck, he may not be ready with his legs either. His caught stealing rate jumped when he went to AA (from 17% to about 24%). He is insanely aggressive and needs to learn a little more patience before he goes up against MLB catchers and pitchers. His caught stealing could easily jump over 30% where stealing becomes a negative. A team simply cannot take up a playoff roster spot with someone who can't play defense, may not be able to hit, and might not even be able to steal at a high rate. He is too much of an unknown.

    Now, for the September call up, the only negatives are he needs to be added to the 40 man (so someone would need to be exposed to waivers) and service time issues. Both are somewhat minor, although with Masset coming back makes the 40 man issue a little tougher. Yet even with those being fairly minor concerns, the team still may not want to use up some of his super 2 time or expose a player to waivers simply for a 1 month pinch runner.

  10. #9
    Member jback76's Avatar
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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    I agree with scott, I don't believe he's ready to help the Reds in the playoffs with his glove or bat. Do you take up a playoff roster spot with a pinch runner? I would love to see him up in September though. But I don't think we see him till next year sometime.

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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    He's not on the 40 man - ain't happenin'.

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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    the advantage is obvious - in that he gets to experience a taste of the majors and we get a guy who could be used as a pinch-runner.

    But can someone really explain the negative? What would it likely cost us in terms of opening a spot on the 40-man roster? And how much of an impact does one month have in terms of MLB service and what that means for arbitration and free agency way down the road?

  13. #12
    Member Larkin88's Avatar
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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    Do you want him on the playoff roster?

    Then just bringing him up in September doesn't make sense, as he needs to be on the 25-man roster before September to qualify. You would need to add him to the 25-man roster by August 31st if you wanted to go in this direction. While I know fan opinion on the bench is split, knowing what we know about this organization, who do you really think they would get rid of at this point to make that happen?

    Keep in mind, we're going to have one Joey Votto coming back and needing a spot soon as well. I'd argue that Xavier Paul as a lefty has given the team a much harder decision to make on who will go down than Costanzo or Negron ever did earlier in the year.

    Also, if I'm not mistaken (and let me know if I am), you start his arbitration clock which likely will impact the team going forward. Assuming he truly is the dynamic talent in development that he has been pegged as, you'd be trading arbitration time for about a month of baseball where he will be relegated to about the most limited role there is.

    If the Reds choose to extend him beyond his arbitration years, that's one less arbitration year to buy out, meaning one more year that you are paying the free agent premium. Depending on how quickly he takes once he gets here, that could literally mean millions of dollars for the club.


    Do you just want him to help win games in September/get a taste of the Majors?

    Then call him up, but understand that his at-bats are taking away from guys who are probably going to be on the playoff roster. Granted, that would happen selectively, but it's still a consideration. And keep in mind that you'd pretty much be reserving a roster spot just for a guy who can pinch run.

    Especially at the MLB level, Hamilton has no natural defensive position yet to be starting asset. Not saying that is good or bad necessarily if you think the rest of the roster is set. But having watched his development very closely, he is not ready to be a starter in this league. (And boy do I hope he transitions to the outfield soon to fix that)

    You would also need to add him to the 40-man for that to happen. Wouldn't be hard to do as there's a lot of dead weight on the 40, but assuming he doesn't stick at the MLB level to start the year next season, you need to burn an option you otherwise wouldn't in 2013 to start him in the minors.

    Ultimately, I don't think that's a huge deal because I doubt it will take three years of options for Billy to be ready for the show as this point. But you're sort of stuck if he does (like if he struggles adjusting to OF or something).


    Do you just want to sell tickets down the stretch?

    Then disregard the rest of the implications, call him up, and start printing your money.

    Net net, my position is that I have my reservations about him on the playoff roster because I don't think he fills a complete enough role to be valuable. There aren't a ton of negatives if the Reds do decide to promote him in September just for a cup of coffee, but ultimately think it'd be much ado about nothing and wouldn't gamble what small, marginal risks there are.

    My position might be different if the Reds were in a tooth and nail playoff battle with .5 game margins to close the year. In those instances, being able to sneak one more run across in a game in September is crucial. Knocking on a big old piece of wood, though... if the Reds keep playing at close to the pace they've been on, I'm not sure that marginal speed becomes quite so helpful.

    I know runs are at a premium in the postseason, but I'm not convinced that pinch running margin alone is reason enough to keep him on a playoff roster.
    Last edited by Larkin88; 08-20-2012 at 03:56 PM.

  14. #13
    Plan to be spontaneous Jefferson24's Avatar
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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    There is a case not to start his clock too early and that case is he will need time to learn a new position. I believe the Reds would be better served with him as a center fielder if he is capable of making that transition. It will take time to figure out if center field is doable. I like Cozart where he is and don't want to pick between them.

    I would rather pick between Stubbs and Hamilton. Let Hamilton spend next year at AAA in center and lets see what we got. It also gives Stubbs another year to learn how to not strike out as much. Whichever one of them finds success, that's who they should go with.
    We only live in patches. - H. G. Wells

  15. #14
    Member Larkin88's Avatar
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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson24 View Post
    There is a case not to start his clock too early and that case is he will need time to learn a new position. I believe the Reds would be better served with him as a center fielder if he is capable of making that transition. It will take time to figure out if center field is doable. I like Cozart where he is and don't want to pick between them.

    I would rather pick between Stubbs and Hamilton. Let Hamilton spend next year at AAA in center and lets see what we got. It also gives Stubbs another year to learn how to not strike out as much. Whichever one of them finds success, that's who they should go with.
    I'll add to your first point. I too, love Cozart. But even if I didn't, I've watched Billy play enough SS in the minors to know that he isn't much of a shortstop. I'd be calling Didi if I needed someone at short sooner than I would Billy.

    I've heard that some question his arm strength even in center, but think like you do that he is ultimately destined for one of the outfield positions (center of left) when he comes to stay.

    I understand and credit the Reds organization for not trying to force that move mid-season this year, especially after all the growth he's shown at the plate. Want him to find his legs defensively before we start reserving roster spots for him on a playoff roster.

  16. #15
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: bring up billy hamilton on september 1

    Joel Luckhaupt, statistician for Reds telecasts on Fox Sports Ohio, said on-base percentage is key for Hamilton. Hamilton’s 2012 on-base of .418 projects well to the next levels.

    “The good sign for him is that his minor league walk rate is 10 percent, which is solid,” Luckhaupt said. “Even better is that his walk rate this year is nearly 14 percent. Couple that with an 18 percent and dropping strikeout rate, and you’ve got the makings of a guy that knows his job is to get on base however he can.”


    In other words, he won't remind anyone of Drew Stubbs.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...|topnews|text|
    Last edited by malcontent; 08-28-2012 at 02:08 PM.


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