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Thread: A Conversation About PEDs in Today's Game

  1. #1
    Member Billy Hamilton's Legs's Avatar
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    A Conversation About PEDs in Today's Game

    After Melky got caught, as many of you have heard, Balco's Victor Conte said in an interview with ESPN that he suspects nearly half of baseball is still using PEDs (primarily in the form of synthetic testosterone). While I'm not inclined to think the true numbers are that high, I get the feeling the usage is still a lot more than anyone would be comfortable with.

    I'm curious to hear what other people think the true level of usage is and what should be done.

    Personally, I would bet the numbers are at least 10%, which is enough to bother me. Conte says tests exist that can better detect these new methods that players are using, so I wonder why the MLB doesnt adopt these tests. Apparently the method used is the one that takes place after the initial positive test in order to confirm the positive one.

    Another question, are there any Reds that you think could be using? I DONT want to start rumors, but based on either increased performance or power numbers that seem to come from nowhere, there are a couple players that wouldnt surprise me.

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    Re: A Conversation About PEDs in Today's Game

    I would guess 20% or about 4 or 5 players a team. I am sure it was much higher in the heyday of the Bud Selig JuiceBall era.

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    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Any Reds player would surprise me a bit.

    I wish Wilson Valdez would start taking.

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    Retro-Gamer Krawhitham's Avatar
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    Re: A Conversation About PEDs in Today's Game

    35%-45%

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    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter 91.4% of all statistics are made up....and 5 out of 4 people don't understand fractions.

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    metalhead65 (10-11-2013)

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    Re: A Conversation About PEDs in Today's Game

    It does seem that testing has gotten rid of anabolic steroids that caused the numbers to go crazy. I would think that there are 10-20%(mostly veteran players) using testosterone but it seems like it does not cause the crazy performance numbers that steroids. I think the loop hole is you pass a drug test if your testosterone amount if 4X or less of an average male.

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    Member Billy Hamilton's Legs's Avatar
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    Re: A Conversation About PEDs in Today's Game

    Bartolo Colon says hi. you might be onto something with older players. At the least, it's players that have done well at some point and perhaps fallen off.

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    Re: A Conversation About PEDs in Today's Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Doesn't matter 91.4% of all statistics are made up....and 5 out of 4 people don't understand fractions.
    Haha nice!
    2013 Attendance: 6-0
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    Re: Scoreboard Watching 2013 (Playoffs Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I've been here for a while now, I just haven't been posting in the ORG.

    It's blatantly not true some of the things you've said (IE mostly college pitchers, adding more velocity to their fastball since the signing or drafting). For example, many felt that Miller was the second best pitcher behind Strasburg in the 2009 draft and the reason why he fell to the Cards was because teams were not going to be able to sign him. He always had a high velocity fast ball. Martinez always had a high velocity fast ball.

    Again, you're not posting where you're getting your information from. If you're making a claim, by logic you have to back it up. You insinuating that the reason why the young Cardinals pitching is doing so well is because of PED's is sickening, dishonest, and completely misses the mark as far as describing why the Cardinals have been successful this year. It's posts like yours that have made the ORG go from a once respectable forum to somewhat of a joke.
    1. Most of the pitchers I listed were college pitchers. 6 out of 8. That statement is true.

    2. I never said anything about PED's in my post. The only way anyone could have thought I implied that would be if they were thinking that already.

    3. I'm not the only one to wonder about such things. Even mild mannered Chris Welsh of the Reds broadcasting crew has brought up the exact same questions more than one on Reds broadcasts.

    4. Not every pitcher I listed has shown improved velocity since being signed, but at least half have.

    Kevin Seigrist

    http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/1251206.html

    I
    n his AFL finale, the side-armer threw his fastball roughly three-quarters of the time. While it was not exceptional at 87 to 92 mph,
    Fangraphs now has him averaging 95 MPH on his fastball.

    Lance Lynn

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/...p?content=lynn

    Lynn threw his fastball in the 88-90 mph range in this outing, though he's been a tick faster than that in the past.
    Lynn now averages 93 MPH on his fastball according to fangraphs. He has hit 98.

    Trevor Rosenthal:

    http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/04/2...blockID=508437

    "Trevor was always a low-to-mid 90s (mph) guy," the manager said.
    Rosenthal now averages 97 MPH and touches 100 according to fangraphs.

    Michael Wacha

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/...ouis-cardinals

    Wacha was a durable and often dominant college workhorse with a 90-94 MPH fastball.
    Wacha averaged 93 MPH on his fastball and hit 97 numerous times according to Fangraphs.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Scoreboard Watching 2013 (Playoffs Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    1. Most of the pitchers I listed were college pitchers. 6 out of 8. That statement is true.

    2. I never said anything about PED's in my post. The only way anyone could have thought I implied that would be if they were thinking that already.

    3. I'm not the only one to wonder about such things. Even mild mannered Chris Welsh of the Reds broadcasting crew has brought up the exact same questions more than one on Reds broadcasts.

    4. Not every pitcher I listed has shown improved velocity since being signed, but at least half have.

    Kevin Seigrist

    http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/1251206.html

    I

    Fangraphs now has him averaging 95 MPH on his fastball.

    Lance Lynn

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/...p?content=lynn



    Lynn now averages 93 MPH on his fastball according to fangraphs. He has hit 98.

    Trevor Rosenthal:

    http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/04/2...blockID=508437



    Rosenthal now averages 97 MPH and touches 100 according to fangraphs.

    Michael Wacha

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/...ouis-cardinals



    Wacha averaged 93 MPH on his fastball and hit 97 numerous times according to Fangraphs.
    PED's are a creative and cheap way to manipulate a crap system to a teams advantage. I've thought for awhile it's likely a team mandated approach in many ways.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    Re: Scoreboard Watching 2013 (Playoffs Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    2. I never said anything about PED's in my post. The only way anyone could have thought I implied that would be if they were thinking that already.
    Are you serious when you make this statement? I inferred PEDs from your post. It was blatantly obvious to me what you meant.

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    MikeThierry (10-10-2013)

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    Re: Scoreboard Watching 2013 (Playoffs Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beltway View Post
    Are you serious when you make this statement? I inferred PEDs from your post. It was blatantly obvious to me what you meant.
    Right. Because the evidence suggests PED use. There was nothing in my post itself, besides the evidence, that suggested PED use.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. #13
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Scoreboard Watching 2013 (Playoffs Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Right. Because the evidence suggests PED use. There was nothing in my post itself, besides the evidence, that suggested PED use.
    You are one of the most dishonest people I have ever debated on a forum, anywhere. Of course you went down the PED route in your original statement.

    Also, in the Rosenthal link you linked, this is what is said in the next paragraph down:

    ""He came out in two different stints against Elizabethton including the championship final game and he was sitting on 97 (mph) with a very good slider," Shildt recalled. "He knew it was a one-inning stint so he could let it go a little more."
    Of course if Rosenthal is starting, he isn't going to have the high fast ball going. That's just basic logic. Stop looking for things when they're not there.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Scoreboard Watching 2013 (Playoffs Edition)

    Good lord... 757690, do you even read the articles you linked? In the article you linked to Michael Wacha, it stated when he started, his velocity was 90-94. Fangraphs FX shows the average velocity for his fastball this year at 93.1 mph. Yes he topped 97, which isn't out of the realm when he was reaching that out of the bullpen. Remember, Wacha was in the bullpen for part of the year and it's not crazy to expect him to reach that speed. All of the stuff you cite can be explained using a logical thought process without the use of PED's.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

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    Member Beltway's Avatar
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    Re: Scoreboard Watching 2013 (Playoffs Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Right. Because the evidence suggests PED use. There was nothing in my post itself, besides the evidence, that suggested PED use.
    Uhh, no. Because PED accusations are made by fans all the time to discredit the accomplishments of other teams. That's why.

    Now that I think about it, I remember you vehemently arguing that Molina was using PEDs a couple months ago, and your evidence was he hit more HRs the last two seasons. I guess this is your schtick.

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    MikeThierry (10-10-2013)


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